after 2. Qh5 d6 is not great, 2... Nc6 and 2... Nf6 are better. After 3. Bc4 3... g6 is probably best, hitting the Queen and prepairing to get the Dark Square Bishop out from behind the d6 pawn. 3... Nh6 just puts the Knight on a bad square and begs White to play d3 or d4 which are probably both better than the text. 4. d3 is probably the best way to avoid your queen trap. It opens up the diagonal to the misplaced Knight as well and threatens to take it, ruining the Kingside and further weakening f7. You can avoid this by chasing the Queen around a bit, 4... Bg4 Qg5 as in the text but then there's a Queen trade on the table which is obviously good for White and it can only be avoied by moving the Black Queen or playing something awful like f6.
Scholar's mate defense: Queen trap on 5th move!!!
"...Nh6 is not a particularly effective way to defend f7 since white can continue with d3, and undermine the knight by threatening Bxh6 followed by Qxf7 mate." Susan Lilac.
You guys are right, though, it could happen in the kind of game where you see 2. Qh5. Betting your opponent will play badly is hope chess; in the case where they've already played 2. Qh5 sometimes it might be a practical bet. hm... I missed 4. h3. That's probably better than my d3 suggestion. After h3 d3 is the threat.
after 2. Qh5 d6 is not great, 2... Nc6 and 2... Nf6 are better. After 3. Bc4 3... g6 is probably best, hitting the Queen and prepairing to get the Dark Square Bishop out from behind the d6 pawn. 3... Nh6 just puts the Knight on a bad square and begs White to play d3 or d4 which are probably both better than the text. 4. d3 is probably the best way to avoid your queen trap. It opens up the diagonal to the misplaced Knight as well and threatens to take it, ruining the Kingside and further weakening f7. You can avoid this by chasing the Queen around a bit, 4... Bg4 Qg5 as in the text but then there's a Queen trade on the table which is obviously good for White and it can only be avoied by moving the Black Queen or playing something awful like f6.
Yeah but I'm assuming that white is unaware of the trap. Most probably he will develop a pece and fall for the trap. And traps are always risky, at least this is just a positional risk, you don't loose any material. And it's a good way to quickly get rid of complete newbies
And if white plays d3 simply don't go for the trap and play g6 kicking the queen away and now f7 is defended twice.
"...3g6 4 Qf3 is one of the best meathods to counter the system." Reading further from my first quote.
after 2. Qh5 d6 is not great, 2... Nc6 and 2... Nf6 are better. After 3. Bc4 3... g6 is probably best, hitting the Queen and prepairing to get the Dark Square Bishop out from behind the d6 pawn. 3... Nh6 just puts the Knight on a bad square and begs White to play d3 or d4 which are probably both better than the text. 4. d3 is probably the best way to avoid your queen trap. It opens up the diagonal to the misplaced Knight as well and threatens to take it, ruining the Kingside and further weakening f7. You can avoid this by chasing the Queen around a bit, 4... Bg4 Qg5 as in the text but then there's a Queen trade on the table which is obviously good for White and it can only be avoied by moving the Black Queen or playing something awful like f6.
Yeah but I'm assuming that white is unaware of the trap. Most probably he will develop a pece and fall for the trap. And traps are always risky, at least this is just a positional risk, you don't loose any material. And it's a good way to quickly get rid of complete newbies
Doesn't sound too bad at first glance, but then you realize only newbies try for the scholar's mate anyway, so you're better of just playing normally.
I have two friends that are definitely are way too advanced for scholars mate and yet they keep trying it.
No one will ever refute the mighty Scholar's Mate!!!
Yeah I'm the leading authority on it
after 2. Qh5 d6 is not great, 2... Nc6 and 2... Nf6 are better. After 3. Bc4 3... g6 is probably best, hitting the Queen and prepairing to get the Dark Square Bishop out from behind the d6 pawn. 3... Nh6 just puts the Knight on a bad square and begs White to play d3 or d4 which are probably both better than the text. 4. d3 is probably the best way to avoid your queen trap. It opens up the diagonal to the misplaced Knight as well and threatens to take it, ruining the Kingside and further weakening f7. You can avoid this by chasing the Queen around a bit, 4... Bg4 Qg5 as in the text but then there's a Queen trade on the table which is obviously good for White and it can only be avoied by moving the Black Queen or playing something awful like f6.
Yeah but I'm assuming that white is unaware of the trap. Most probably he will develop a pece and fall for the trap. And traps are always risky, at least this is just a positional risk, you don't loose any material. And it's a good way to quickly get rid of complete newbies
Doesn't sound too bad at first glance, but then you realize only newbies try for the scholar's mate anyway, so you're better of just playing normally.
As a beginning player who has been on both the sending and receiving end of Scholar's Mate, I can say that if you are anything above a beginner, just go ahead and play like normal. I probably am not competent enough to come back. This thread is helping me learn to make sure this does not happen to me again. Thanks to everyone who posted here helping people like me.
Additionally, White seems quite fine after he plays 4. h3 (especially if he is comfortable playing the h3-line of the WQA : 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 g6 4. Qf3 Nf6 5. Ne2 Bg7 6. Nbc3 d6 7. h3!?). For example, after 4. h3 g6 5. Qf3 Nc6 6. Ne7 Bg7, White has arrived to familiar territory, with exception to the Knight on the rim. I wouldn’t think it ideal to play this position as Black. Least better if Black decided to stick to the main defense (1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 g6 with no knight on the rim).
I disagree. Nh6 is the absolute best defense against Scholar's Mate. But you have to water just before checkmate to use it. Why, despite the optimal moves being better? Because beginners who use Scholar's Mate most often miss the threat and lose their queen early... Then they usually resign.
Even if they don't, they are not strong players.
Statistically, it is best to assume those who attempt Scholar's Mate are weak player and exploit it with an immediate trap... Among the best who play it, worst cSe scenario, you lose a Knight and still have better development.
Don't play chess like you are playing GM every time or you'll never have fun or understand the people part of chess.
But, my ELO is low... So you should consider that when listening to my opinions.
There's a queen trap I found against Scholar's mate opening, I don't know if it has already been found but here it is:
After 4th move, there is no safe square the white queen can go to. White's best move would be to sacrifice his bishop on f7 but then after you move your king away the white queen will be captured on the next move. Don't move your king to e7 otherwise you're blocking your queen's diagonal and white queen will be able to escape. Also, don't worry about your king being unsafe, it's very unlikely you get checkmated any soon without the queen, especially if he's a beginner playing scholar's mate.
There are only 4 different moves that your oponent can play on his 4th move to avoid falling for the trap on the 5th move:
The first 2 are moving f or h pawn up one square stopping the black bishop to move all the way to g4 but those are very unlikely.
The other 2 are moving the kingside knight (to f3 or g3). This is what would happen:
Now the white queen is protected by the knight, so the white queen can't capture it without being taken by the knight.