They're about even, but I would make an argument for the Scotch. White's highest scoring responses in the Scotch are the Exchange Scotches, 5. Nxc6 in the Classical and in the Schmidt, both of which are incredibly common, while the Malaniuk, Black's highest scoring response, is rather rare. The Goring Gambit is also one of the best gambits in any mainstream opening, as the Double Pawn Sacrifice Accepted and Double Pawn Sacrifice Declined are very good for White, but the Goring Gambit Declined also scores in White's favor. 2200+ ELO and the Scotch becomes rather simple to draw against, but below that the Scotch is probably slightly better compared to in the Italian, as everybody knows extensive Italian counterplay as early as U1700. Above 2200, the Spanish is better than both the Italian and the Scotch, though.
Scotch Game vs Italian Game- Which is better for Intermediate Players (White)
This is a good question to ask whenever you become an intermediate player.
wow, you're so good! you're an IM! AMAZING! You don't need to go around every forum and rub it in everybody's face.
This is a good question to ask whenever you become an intermediate player.
wow, you're so good! you're an IM! AMAZING! You don't need to go around every forum and rub it in everybody's face.
That's uncalled-for. His point is a valid one, as OP is U1500 blitz and U1300 rapid, and at that level, pieces (plural intended) are hung every single game, so players in that ELO band have bigger issues to worry about than a choice between two ultra-solid openings. Scotch ftw though. It's simple, it's aggressive, and your opponents will be less prepared for it than the Italian at this rating.
This is a good question to ask whenever you become an intermediate player.
wow, you're so good! you're an IM! AMAZING! You don't need to go around every forum and rub it in everybody's face.
That's uncalled-for. His point is a valid one, as OP is U1500 blitz and U1300 rapid, and at that level, pieces (plural intended) are hung every single game, so players in that ELO band have bigger issues to worry about than a choice between two ultra-solid openings. Scotch ftw though. It's simple, it's aggressive, and your opponents will be less prepared for it than the Italian at this rating.
Yes, I concede that OP isn't great, but EVERYWHERE I see pfren being "mean" (can't find a better word) to weaker people.
Perhaps it's his personality. Personally I try really hard to be nice to people who want to improve, and get pissed off a lot when someone comes and starts being mean.
This is a good question to ask whenever you become an intermediate player.
wow, you're so good! you're an IM! AMAZING! You don't need to go around every forum and rub it in everybody's face.
That's uncalled-for. His point is a valid one, as OP is U1500 blitz and U1300 rapid, and at that level, pieces (plural intended) are hung every single game, so players in that ELO band have bigger issues to worry about than a choice between two ultra-solid openings. Scotch ftw though. It's simple, it's aggressive, and your opponents will be less prepared for it than the Italian at this rating.
Yes, I concede that OP isn't great, but EVERYWHERE I see pfren being "mean" (can't find a better word) to weaker people.
Perhaps it's his personality. Personally I try really hard to be nice to people who want to improve, and get pissed off a lot when someone comes and starts being mean.
Brusque, blunt, no-nonsense perhaps, but not mean. Just because pfren doesn't sugarcoat what actually needs to be said doesn't mean it's mean. It may not come off as nice, but if it helps as I expect it will, it's much more of a kindness than validating bad habits like a lot of people online do. There's nothing wrong with being nice, but there's also nothing wrong with getting straight to the heart of the matter either.
Ya but pfren knows ZERO about OP
You are aware that with two clicks you can view someone's whole profile, including current rating, how long they've been on Chess.com, win rate, and which time controls they prefer right? If pfren did his due diligence (and why wouldn't he) then this statement is simply false.
Ya but pfren knows ZERO about OP
You are aware that with two clicks you can view someone's whole profile, including current rating, how long they've been on Chess.com, win rate, and which time controls they prefer right? If pfren did his due diligence (and why wouldn't he) then this statement is simply false.
Alts exist. The simple thing is that the OPs rating is irrelevant
Ya but pfren knows ZERO about OP
You are aware that with two clicks you can view someone's whole profile, including current rating, how long they've been on Chess.com, win rate, and which time controls they prefer right? If pfren did his due diligence (and why wouldn't he) then this statement is simply false.
Alts exist. The simple thing is that the OPs rating is irrelevant
Alts do exist. However, OP has been playing for about a year and a half, about 1800 games worth between rapid and blitz, and is 600 blitz and 800 rapid. This isn't an alt account. And OP's rating is very relevant, as the openings I'd recommend to someone U1200 rapid and someone 1700-2200 rapid (the widely accepted metric for being intermediate, a category I myself am not in yet) are drastically different.
Ya but pfren knows ZERO about OP
You are aware that with two clicks you can view someone's whole profile, including current rating, how long they've been on Chess.com, win rate, and which time controls they prefer right? If pfren did his due diligence (and why wouldn't he) then this statement is simply false.
Alts exist. The simple thing is that the OPs rating is irrelevant
Alts do exist. However, OP has been playing for about a year and a half, about 1800 games worth between rapid and blitz, and is 600 blitz and 800 rapid. This isn't an alt account. And OP's rating is very relevant, as the openings I'd recommend to someone U1200 rapid and someone 1700-2200 rapid (the widely accepted metric for being intermediate, a category I myself am not in yet) are drastically different.
💀💀 2200 is not intermediate... please refer to any other chess source, intermediate is generally 1100 - 1500
1100-1400 players hang pieces (plural) every single game. 1400-1700 players usually hang at least a piece every other game. Between 1700-2200, an opening repertoire actually matters, games aren't decided by who hangs a piece first, and endgames and middlegames are much more even.
1100-1400 players hang pieces (plural) every single game. 1400-1700 players usually hang at least a piece every other game. Between 1700-2200, an opening repertoire actually matters, games aren't decided by who hangs a piece first, and endgames and middlegames are much more even.
As a lower rated player-
This is not always true, I’ve had plenty of games where I have not hanged a piece nor my opponent did, and just won (or lost) of a better endgame.
Not to mention the fact that you can win off the opening, provided you know why you play each move and how to punish bad moves.
It is always good to learn a good opening, even if just to learn the ideas to become better at understanding how to play and discouraging that is stupid (I would think)
1100-1400 players hang pieces (plural) every single game. 1400-1700 players usually hang at least a piece every other game. Between 1700-2200, an opening repertoire actually matters, games aren't decided by who hangs a piece first, and endgames and middlegames are much more even.
💀💀 people stop hanging pieces at 1400, openings matter from 1200 onwards, and a sizable percentage of games at 1600 onward games are decided by positional stuff
This is not always true, I’ve had plenty of games where I have not hanged a piece nor my opponent did, and just won (or lost) of a better endgame.
Not to mention the fact that you can win off the opening, provided you know why you play each move and how to punish bad moves.
It is always good to learn a good opening, even if just to learn the ideas to become better at understanding how to play and discouraging that is stupid (I would think)
Hyperbole on my end but the point still stands. Below 1400, the amount of games decided by a blunder is much higher however. (edited) Also I'm just now realizing that you're a rapid player, while I play both rapid and blitz, with a small preference towards blitz, so of course my games would involve more blunders, my apologies.
True. Which is why I recommend that literally every player under 1200 learn the first 8 moves of the Polerio. It felt like a third of my games U1200 were Fried Liver attempts, and playing the Polerio artificially boosted my rating at least a hundred points at the time.
Yes, but the difference between a good opening at different levels is massive. The Ruy Lopez, often touted (correctly imo) as the most intuitive and best opening for both White and Black, is great, but terrible for new players to learn due to the depth of theory and amount of variations. My recommendation for U1200 players in the Ruy Lopez is the Bird's Defense. It is objectively worse than the Morphy variations, Berlin variations, Steinitz variations, Arkhangelsk variations, and Classical variations, but it is incredibly simple and still rather solid. Worry about mainlines and deep theory once you hit 1500.
1100-1400 players hang pieces (plural) every single game. 1400-1700 players usually hang at least a piece every other game. Between 1700-2200, an opening repertoire actually matters, games aren't decided by who hangs a piece first, and endgames and middlegames are much more even.
💀💀 people stop hanging pieces at 1400, openings matter from 1200 onwards, and a sizable percentage of games at 1600 onward games are decided by positional stuff
Note that everything you said essentially matches up with what I said.
All but one thing. There's a big difference between an opening and an "opening". I have an OTB friend (1150 online blitz, 900 online rapid) who mains the Ruy Lopez as both colors, and our games in the Ruy Lopez can go 10 to 15 moves deep into theory, but they've never once played a Ruy Lopez game that went more than 5 moves deep into theory. That's an "opening". What they play with me is an actual opening.
Scotch overpowered