Semi Slav Question

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Avatar of llama47

So I've been trying this opening out a bit. After 3.Nf3 I don't want a QID (after Nc3 I'd go for a Nimzo)

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But I'm a bit intimidated by the massive amount of theory.

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Question 1: Is it easy enough to play on principle, just going for natural moves, and e5 or c5 later?

Question 2: Should I be considering a different opening (Bogo Indian?)

Avatar of Arceusadi_69

1)IMO if you ask me how to make progress I'd transpose into KID and  play c5 eventually

2)the whole purpose of playing nc6 so early is to fianchetto the dark squared bishop but if you don't want to do that then you can follow a different move order which will result into QGD which is far less complicated and the position is more intuitive than theoritical

Avatar of llama47

After 2...e6 I don't think I should go for a KID wink.png

Avatar of Arceusadi_69

That's your Choice then you can switch your move order and start with classical Slav or QGD and then you have a lot of options in the middle game

Avatar of Arceusadi_69

In many games I go for the early h5 g5 due to the closed centre and then go later for queen-size castle leads to double edged positions but definitely interesting

Avatar of llama47

Ok, that's true, so you're saying I could try a QGD with 4...Be7 hmm

Not my favorite, but it's definitely solid and something I've played before, so that would really cut down on any new theory I need to learn.

Avatar of nTzT

The semi-slav is quite easy to play and not that intimidating.  Maybe just start out with it more and get used to it IMO. I think things like the Slav itself have way more theory that one needs to know. The semi-slav is more based on ideas of development. It's less sharp.

Avatar of nTzT

I tried the slav and some other things but the semi-slav is just great. It's more natural and I think it's exactly what you are looking for.

Avatar of llama47

Hmm, ok, thanks for the feedback.

Avatar of llama47

As for the theory, I saw there's the Meran and anti-Meran.

Ok, so far so good. But then each branch seemed like white had many many options. Of course black's plan seems roughly the same and fairly simple (play c5 or e5) but again, I'm new to the opening (I play 1.e4 as white) so I'm not sure how to feel about it.

Avatar of king5minblitz119147

i don't think the nimzo and the semi slav combines well transpositionally. i have the nimzo in my repertoire and i also don't want to play the qid. i pair the nimzo with either the benoni or the qgd. the qgd gives you an easier time against everything else not a nimzo as your setup is the same, i.e., be7, nbd7, b6, bb7, and eventually c5.

i got irritated by people trying 3 a3 just to avoid the nimzo and against the qgd this is actually a legitimate try for white, but against the benoni there's only one specific line where it could make sense, so i'd rather make white find that.

Avatar of TwoMove

It's a bit of a chess.com thing, the obsession with playing c6 and semi-slav, probably based on too much reliance on database stats. In the move order of your example, you could have just played Be7, and developed with castling, b6, Bb7, then c5, or 4...c5 immediately. So you can just play a straightforward Queens Gambit Declined with much less theory to worry about. 

Avatar of ThrillerFan

To answer the OP, the Semi-Slav has about as much theory, if not more theory, as the Kings Indian Defense. 

 

If you want to avoid the QID, there are many options and I have sorted then from low to high in terms of being labor-intensive, meaning the top is the easiest, bottom is riddled in theory

 

QGD - Lasker

QGD - Orthodox

QGD - Tartakower

Bogo-Indian

Modern Benoni (does avoid the four pawns/flick knife attack)

QGD Vienna

QGD Ragozin

Semi-Slav Defense

Avatar of ShamusMcFlannigan

There are less theoretical branches of the meran you could try but the Ragozin is a great Nimzo partner.  It's not too theoretical, you get interesting positions, and it can be your response to the Kasparov Nimzo as well.

Avatar of Sgr-A

Every opening will have theory. Something to consider is studying the Moscow and anti-Moscow with Mean and anti-Meran systems. Leave out studying the Botvinnik variations since it is one of the most complicated lines of the Semi-Slav.

Avatar of llama47
TwoMove wrote:

It's a bit of a chess.com thing, the obsession with playing c6 and semi-slav, probably based on too much reliance on database stats. In the move order of your example, you could have just played Be7, and developed with castling, b6, Bb7, then c5, or 4...c5 immediately. So you can just play a straightforward Queens Gambit Declined with much less theory to worry about. 

The move order I show is very deliberate. I have other things I play in other situations. So I am avoiding all the Bg5 semi-slav stuff. I was thinking I would just have to worry about the meran and anti-meran.

Avatar of llama47
ThrillerFan wrote:

To answer the OP, the Semi-Slav has about as much theory, if not more theory, as the Kings Indian Defense. 

 

If you want to avoid the QID, there are many options and I have sorted then from low to high in terms of being labor-intensive, meaning the top is the easiest, bottom is riddled in theory

 

QGD - Lasker

QGD - Orthodox

QGD - Tartakower

Bogo-Indian

Modern Benoni (does avoid the four pawns/flick knife attack)

QGD Vienna

QGD Ragozin

Semi-Slav Defense

I used to play the Lasker and Tartakower exclusively, but wanted to branch out a bit. The Nimzo is fun, but white can avoid it with Nf3 so I'm trying to figure that out, and my first choice isn't going right back to the QGD... but obviously it would be a very sensible choice.

Avatar of llama47
king5minblitz119147 wrote:

i don't think the nimzo and the semi slav combines well transpositionally. i have the nimzo in my repertoire and i also don't want to play the qid. i pair the nimzo with either the benoni or the qgd. the qgd gives you an easier time against everything else not a nimzo as your setup is the same, i.e., be7, nbd7, b6, bb7, and eventually c5.

i got irritated by people trying 3 a3 just to avoid the nimzo and against the qgd this is actually a legitimate try for white, but against the benoni there's only one specific line where it could make sense, so i'd rather make white find that.

Hmm, I hadn't considered a benoni setup. Thanks for the feedback.

Avatar of Uhohspaghettio1

At the elite level, the Semi-Slav only comes second to the Ruy Lopez for having the most theory (and maybe King's Indian, but the King's Indian has always been considered a bit dodgy at that level). It's a major theory battleground for the elites. However at the lower levels, white probably won't know a whole amount of in it theory and will just go on principles and patterns, which is sufficient for this fundamentally strategic opening. 

I think though you are better off learning the Slav, as the Slav can have more counterplay and be more aggressive if white makes mistakes. It's also easier to understand - crazy stuff happens in some Meran Semi-Slavs. It's a strategic opening however and doesn't require paranoid checking and rechecking of tactical possibilities (except in the way that chess always does). 

Avatar of llama47

Well, it sounds like people are telling me it's a bad choice. Ok. I'll choose something more practical.