Spanish game vs Italian
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Miketyranosaur_238-Q
Apr 7, 2023
0
#1
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Both fine. It doesn't matter which one you choose
Apr 9, 2023
0
#3
If you are anything below an intermediate player the Spanish makes no sense imo. It is theory heavy. The Italian though is not as heavy theory wise to pick up.
The Ruy Lopez is the best. It's the most classical and basic in terms of chess principles. It's more ambitious in controlling the centre.
White pressures e5 by threatening to capture the knight (after e4 is defended). White can expand in the centre with c3-d4 achieving a greater space advantage. This central expansion as harder to achieve in the Italian as black will often have d5 with a tempo on the bishop.
Arullu wrote:
If you are anything below an intermediate player the Spanish makes no sense imo. It is theory heavy. The Italian though is not as heavy theory wise to pick up.
The post didn't even mention for what level and then gatekeepers like this come along and say stuff like "This opening bad because theory, and theory = bad"
At lower levels no-one knows all the theory anyway. Just because some GMs analysed the opening, doesn't mean that's relevant to all of us who haven't reached the point of that analysis.
Apr 9, 2023
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#6
Hello @SamuelAjedrez95, not sure why you feel the need to be insulting in a reply to my post. That said, specifying a level would simply say it is too specific and why not below or above that number. Coming in at intermediate is reasonable and was also voiced by several coaches that I have taken some lessons from.
Happy Easter.
Arullu wrote:
Hello @SamuelAjedrez95, not sure why you feel the need to be insulting in a reply to my post. That said, specifying a level would simply say it is too specific and why not below or above that number. Coming in at intermediate is reasonable and was also voiced by several coaches that I have taken some lessons from.
Happy Easter.
I wasn't insulting you. I just see it as a gatekeeper mentality.
The post states specifically "Spanish game vs Italian". That's to say, which is better? It's not about what is best for which level. Saying it makes no sense to play it below intermediate level is an attempt at discouraging the person from playing the opening which is essentially gatekeeping.
Spanish is good at all levels. Saying it's theory heavy is irrelevant when you are playing at lower levels where people don't know all the theory.
The Italian has a lot of theory as well.
Apr 9, 2023
0
#8
I found Pianissimo to be harder to navigate than every other Ruy out there, lol.
Piano however has some nice gambits, at least.
Arullu wrote:
Hello @SamuelAjedrez95, not sure why you feel the need to be insulting in a reply to my post. That said, specifying a level would simply say it is too specific and why not below or above that number. Coming in at intermediate is reasonable and was also voiced by several coaches that I have taken some lessons from.
Happy Easter.
Sorry, you desered to be "insulted".
Apr 9, 2023
0
#10
Hello @ Chessflyfisher
People wonder why others don't bother posting in the forums.....Social media writ large is a toilet bowl full of toxic people. These forums have proven to be no exception sadly. I won't bother following up.
Enjoy your Sunday.
No need to get so sensitive over some criticism. The advice in your comment was dubious so you can't expect everyone to agree with you.
Apr 9, 2023
0
#12
The Ruy Lopez is far better in basically every sense. The positions white can get are better, the ideas are simpler, it’s very theory heavy, although many of the lines aren’t entirely necessary to learn.
Apr 9, 2023
0
#13
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
No need to get so sensitive over some criticism. The advice in your comment was dubious so you can't expect everyone to agree with you.
ignore this average dumb communist canadian, hes just upset that others do not agree with him
but in general the ruy lopez gives much more fun, richer positions where each side has chances
compared to your average italian game theres not many chances for each side
and then you have this
The right reply is #2
alexlehrersh wrote:
NumerousBadgers hat geschrieben:
The Ruy Lopez is far better in basically every sense. The positions white can get are better, the ideas are simpler, it’s very theory heavy, although many of the lines aren’t entirely necessary to learn.
Thats a lie
Italian is simpler. Not mutch but clearly simpler
Hard disagree. Tell me what the best move in a Giuoco Pianissimo Mainline is and why it's the best move compared to the best move in a Closed Morphy Mainline and why it's the best move and it's pretty clear that the Ruy Lopez is simpler. And @NumerousBadgers has two other very valid points.
alexlehrersh wrote:
Nope Ryy Lopey is never simpler
You have many more variations you have to learn. Also Spanish is more often more positional than the Italian. And Pianisimo is a concret line white dont have to choose
Where in spanish white cannot avoid the more complex lines. So pretty clear never
And "far better" is not valilf
I showed the Martinez Variation (the d3 Ruy Lopezzes) off in a thread previously, which IIRC you were a part of, and we had this argument earlier. At the end of the day, both are perfectly playable and both very fun to play, we just have different preferences.
alexlehrersh wrote:
Yep we had to reheat the argument because the threathmaker didnt bother too look for an similar threath
True. I'm sorry this happens so often.
Apr 9, 2023
0
#18
alexlehrersh wrote:
Nope Ryy Lopey is never simpler
You have many more variations you have to learn. Also Spanish is more often more positional than the Italian. And Pianisimo is a concret line white dont have to choose
Where in spanish white cannot avoid the more complex lines. So pretty clear never
And "far better" is not valilf
white can easily avoid the complex lines, for example
alexlehrersh wrote:
Nope Ryy Lopey is never simpler
You have many more variations you have to learn. Also Spanish is more often more positional than the Italian. And Pianisimo is a concret line white dont have to choose
Where in spanish white cannot avoid the more complex lines. So pretty clear never
And "far better" is not valilf
Ruy Lopez ideas are very intuitive. You basically just want to castle and play c3-d4, bring the pieces over to the kingside.
Ruy Lopez main line is more aggressive than the Italian main line. You reposition all your pieces to target the kingside and attack.
A lot of amateurs have the perception that the Italian is more aggressive because it attacks f7 but it isn't true. Only some gambits and sidelines in the Italian are aggressive but they are often dubious. Giuoco Pianissimo is very quiet.
The variations you showed are not complex at all.
The Bird in particular is very silly and not a serious challenge to the Ruy Lopez.