Switching to Sicilian, but which Sicilian?

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tlay80

e6 is also playable against the Alapin, but impractical. As far as I know, the only good way to play it is to follow it with d5, transposing into an Advance French. Grandmasters (who tend to know how to play all openings) might do this occasionally as a move order trick for a particular game against a particular opponent, but it doesn't make much sense for the rest of us to learn a whole new opening just to deal with a particular sideline for which there are two other, simpler responses that are at least as good.

pleewo
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

I mean, d6 is a perfectly legitimate move actually. It allows us to play d4, but the idea is to play Nf6 and d6 controls the e5 square. Many grandmasters have played like this and it’s not that of a bad option

I've seen that d6 is actually playable against the Alapin but it gives white much more of an edge than Nf6 or d5. Nc6 can be played as long as black follows it up with d5, transposing into a Barmen Defence line.

Yeah that’s true 👍

pleewo
tlay80 wrote:

e6 is also playable against the Alapin, but impractical. As far as I know, the only good way to play it is to follow it with d5, transposing into an Advance French. Grandmasters (who tend to know how to play all openings) might do this occasionally as a move order trick for a particular game against a particular opponent, but it doesn't make much sense for the rest of us to learn a whole new opening just to deal with a particular sideline for which there are two other, simpler responses that are at least as good.

Ye it’s pretty impractical. but maybe some Sicilian players also play French!

RatkoGavrilo1

So if I wanna fight right out of the opening I should go for Sveshnikov? Why would I prefer it to Najdorf or Dragon for example? Curious.

pleewo

Dragon and Najdorf are awesome 🔥

I just personally like Sveshnikov more.

i also think it’s more of a fistfight than Najdorf or dragon, and more aggressive too I think. Black is always coming straight for white and black doesn’t plan on stopping 🔪 🩸

pleewo

If you want “a fight” out of the opening, Sveshnikov would just suit you better than Najdorf or dragon. At least I think so

It’s just more aggressive by nature

tlay80
RatkoGavrilo1 wrote:

So if I wanna fight right out of the opening I should go for Sveshnikov? Why would I prefer it to Najdorf or Dragon for example? Curious.

All three are good options. They're different sorts of fights.

I play the Najdorf, but if I wanted to start over, I might seriously consider the Sveshnikov. Plenty of chances for initiative, though the trendy 7. Nd5 takes some of the fun out of it. Another downside is you have to prepare for the Rossolimo, which is somewhat more dangerous than the comparable Moscow Variation (which is what the same 3. Bb5 plan is played against 2. ... d6).

My impression (possibly wrong) is that both are a bit easier to play than the Dragon, both at the intermediate and advanced levels

tlay80
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

If you want “a fight” out of the opening, Sveshnikov would just suit you better than Najdorf or dragon. At least I think so

It’s just more aggressive by nature

I haven't followed the theory closely -- is Black still finding ways to get a real fight in the 7. Nd5 variation? (And does that line actually get played at the intermediate level? It seems to have become practically the main line at the GM level.)

pleewo

Trendy 7.Nd5 takes the fun out of it? Nonsense! I have no idea what you are talking about. White has the beautiful strategical advantages to work with, the weak d5 square and the backwards d6 pawn. And whites just like “I don’t want em”

It also offers great play for black in my opinion, it’s still plenty of fun! It does take some sting out of it but you just play nb8 ( I like it more than ne7). You play be7, 0-0, a6, f5 and Nd7! Oftentimes we will play f4 when white doesn’t play f4, and get a marvellous attacking game!

pleewo

I recently got it OTB in a friendly rapid game and I won a marvellous attacking game!

tlay80
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

I recently got it OTB in a friendly rapid game and I won a marvellous attacking game!

Post it! Curious to see.

RatkoGavrilo1
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

If you want “a fight” out of the opening, Sveshnikov would just suit you better than Najdorf or dragon. At least I think so

It’s just more aggressive by nature

Thats usually my style. Let me give some examples to give you an overall idea.

I use Schleimann Ruy, Four Pawns against KID, Four Pawns against Alekhine. Panov Attack for Caro, Dutch against d4. There are objectively better stuff but being an engine slave is not okay in our patzer level of play when I can fight asap, though it always takes two to tango.

Samuel also said Sveshnikov is the most agressive as black some time ago iirc.

But the alternatives are Dragon and Najdorf I mean, you really struggle to pick one here eh.

RatkoGavrilo1
tlay80 wrote:
RatkoGavrilo1 wrote:

So if I wanna fight right out of the opening I should go for Sveshnikov? Why would I prefer it to Najdorf or Dragon for example? Curious.

All three are good options. They're different sorts of fights.

I play the Najdorf, but if I wanted to start over, I might seriously consider the Sveshnikov. Plenty of chances for initiative, though the trendy 7. Nd5 takes some of the fun out of it. Another downside is you have to prepare for the Rossolimo, which is somewhat more dangerous than the comparable Moscow Variation (which is what the same 3. Bb5 plan is played against 2. ... d6).

My impression (possibly wrong) is that both are a bit easier to play than the Dragon, both at the intermediate and advanced levels

The idea of dealing with Rossolimo seems additional backpain ngl.

tlay80
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

Trendy 7.Nd5 takes the fun out of it? Nonsense! I have no idea what you are talking about.

It’s very likely I don’t either. The Sveshnikov is a line I admire from a distance but don’t actually play. I’d assumed that 7 Nd5 foresakes some of White’s more obvious ideas (the knight outpost on d5) in order to cut down on Black’s counterplay. But I haven’t spent much time studying the actual results.

pleewo
 
tlay80 wrote:
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

I recently got it OTB in a friendly rapid game and I won a marvellous attacking game!

Post it! Curious to see.

I didn’t notate it but the opening went like this

tlay80

Thanks. Yes, it’s clear there’s plenty for Black to do in such positions.

pleewo
RatkoGavrilo1 wrote:
tlay80 wrote:
RatkoGavrilo1 wrote:

So if I wanna fight right out of the opening I should go for Sveshnikov? Why would I prefer it to Najdorf or Dragon for example? Curious.

All three are good options. They're different sorts of fights.

I play the Najdorf, but if I wanted to start over, I might seriously consider the Sveshnikov. Plenty of chances for initiative, though the trendy 7. Nd5 takes some of the fun out of it. Another downside is you have to prepare for the Rossolimo, which is somewhat more dangerous than the comparable Moscow Variation (which is what the same 3. Bb5 plan is played against 2. ... d6).

My impression (possibly wrong) is that both are a bit easier to play than the Dragon, both at the intermediate and advanced levels

The idea of dealing with Rossolimo seems additional backpain ngl.

That’s true, but so is Moscow

TwoMove

It all depends on habits of players in your local area, but in the UK it very common for club players, and even GM's to avoid main lines. If play an e6 sicilian can re-use a lot of french lines against side lines.

Have mostly played the Taimanov, but recently interested in sicilian four knights too. Can use that move order to avoid Nd5 line if at all bothered about it, 1e4 c5 2Nf3 e6 3d4 pxp 5Nxp Nf6 6Nc3 Nc6 7Nb5 d6 8Bf4 e5 9Bg5 transposing to sveshnikov. 7NxN b7xN 8e5 Nd5 leads to interesting play too, which nowdays considered quite ok for black. A main line has white playing with Ke2, which club players might not find comfortable.

Mazetoskylo
Optimissed wrote:
FrogboyWarpz wrote:
  tlay80 wrote:
FrogboyWarpz wrote:

I recently got it OTB in a friendly rapid game and I won a marvellous attacking game!

Post it! Curious to see.

I didn’t notate it but the opening went like this

I used to play that line as white when I played 1. e4. Shouldn't white play 10. Be3? The line played, with 10. Be2, seems way too passive.

10.Be3 runs into 10...a6 11.Nc3 Bg5! when that Be3 may well turn out to be a waste of time. Either 10.Be2, or 10.Bd3 is played (the former scores better). And anyway, the modern approach in that line is 9.a4!, not 9.c4- the c4 square is kept empty, potentially for the knight.

WillistheChampion

And he sacrifices... THE ROOK!!!