Unfortunately, the French player, such as myself, is in no way taken out of their comfort zone, as there is line they can play...
And, I'm pretty comfortable, actually in the zone here. You only considered the one line, I took one look at the setup and thought, 'hey! what about this line!'
Maybe black blundered because he was taken out of his comfort zone by the KIA?!
Did you see the game?
White was completely outplayed. Not so much because of strength (white is surely a stronger player) but because it is very hard to get something as white in this line.
Even if white was outplayed, black had nothing concrete to show for it. Then, black blundered. I think black blundered because of the unfamiliar opening.
Okay, let's assume that black blundered in time pressure. Maybe black landed in time pressure due to unfamiliar opening.
Frequently, when people face unfamiliar openings, they blunder or lose on time.
The the Bukavshin line, in the traditional main-line of the Kings Indian attack is well covered in the Quality chess book "Playing the French" by Aagard and Niktils, amongst other ideas in the main-line. Many other French rep books recommend avoiding the traditional main-line, because white can get big attacks as in old Fischer games. If black is well prepared doesn't have anything to fear in these lines, and it may well be the best way to get a double edge game. In the book "e3 posion" the same line is recommended for white, trying to make use of the extra tempo.
In an individual game, it is usually not known who is more or less prepared or more comfortable.
For black, i like to advocate this line :
Oh I was confused what Bukavskin's idea was thought was Rf-c8 followed by Qd8 to cover g5, and then Bf8 if needed to cover kingside. In lines covered "Playing French" Qc7 played early so white needs Qe2 to play e5, then Ba6. Bukavakin is playing Bb7, then Rf-c8 then Qd8, and also h6 to discourge g5. They look similar ideas on surface but suppose if allowing opponent potentially dangerous attacks, need to get details right,
why would somebody play the french anyway when sicilian is much better, fact, no modern champ has played much and current top 10 or so don't play so it's not very good, very much a club players opening, anyway the solution is simple, don't bother with kia or advance, rubinstein ect, just play exd5 exchange, french players hate, just like slav players hate slav exchange, sorted
I doubt French players hate french exchange....seeing as how they still play French. Actually, a lot of people playing white hate the french exchange. Me amongst them.
Why such frustration? Because we win too easily. 99% of the time, the defense is expecting some passive move by white....and so I get the response that they forgot how to defend against mainline moves by white. The only way to get a game is to play OTB where they can prepare their French.
These exchangers think they are antagonizing black, but instead they are hurting white, including themselves.
This debate intriuged me and I looked at chess365 big database and interestingly, black scores highest in the exchange variation. The best scores for white is in Nd2 (tarrasch) line.
What surprised me is that the Rubinstein variation is doing very badly for black. Could someone explain why french Rubinstein is doing so badly.
What surprised me is that the Rubinstein variation is doing very badly for black. Could someone explain why french Rubinstein is doing so badly.
The Rubinstein releases the central tension too soon, leaving White with a rather free hand.
no offence pfren and other french fans, but Fischer and Kasparov, Carlsen too heavily favoured sicilian over french, so sicilian is better defence, fact, not to say it's awful or anything, it's about as good as philidor or caro kann, not a disaster, but not a best option
Just because an opening was favored by three players, no matter how great, does not make that opening superior for everyone.
This debate intriuged me and I looked at chess365 big database and interestingly, black scores highest in the exchange variation. The best scores for white is in Nd2 (tarrasch) line.
What surprised me is that the Rubinstein variation is doing very badly for black. Could someone explain why french Rubinstein is doing so badly.
Mainly because many weak players use the (relatively simple) Rubinstein to draw (and fail).
Hmm... plausible.
Even in masters database, Rubinstein seems to be doing worse for black. I think your explanation is very plausible. But it is very surprising to me. Because, when I played against Rubinstein, I thought it was tough nut to crack and of course very drawish.
Funnily enough you play sicilian with e6, and tranposed to french in own games. You didn't play the resulting positions very well, or the sicilian ones to be honest, but that's ok we are all amateurs here, The main point is that if play e6 sicilians and french can re-use same lines in both if want to. For example the main-line KIA, including Bukavshin line discussed above, and line with c5 mentioned by IM Poucin can be reached by sicilian and other moves orders. Also 1e4 c5 2c3 e6 can tranpose to french .
believe me I have a meme move for literally every meme move someone can play against the french. want to play d3 prepare for a game that looks nothing like a KIA
hi chess.com cumminity,
a lot of amateurs who play 1.e4 suffer against the french. It is very solid and white cannot obtain any great advantage, positions are mostly very static.
That's why i suggest 2.d3!?
Most french player dont like it. It is a very deep opening with a few ideas and a lot of tactical motives.
i suggest you to read my article on this opening on https://improveinchess.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/how-to-learn-openings-2-kings-indian-attack/
How laughable! I have played the French numerous times!
3.exd5? Bring it on!
3.Nd2? Bring it on!
2.d3? Bring it on!
You want to beat a French player?
3.e5! or 3.Nc3!! - White's strongest response! I have lost one French game OTB in the last 4 months. It entailed 3.Nc3!
I usually play 3. Nc3, and its bloodcurdling. Not sure of the theory or mainlines, but both players can end up with strong attacks and counterattacks, insecure kings, pawn storms, busted centers etc. I think its the most knife edged position I see as white. Also one of the most fun.
After reading the comments I have to wonder why anyone would offer anything to this bunch. Wow man wicked hateful over a chess move unreal
This debate intriuged me and I looked at chess365 big database and interestingly, black scores highest in the exchange variation. The best scores for white is in Nd2 (tarrasch) line.
What surprised me is that the Rubinstein variation is doing very badly for black. Could someone explain why french Rubinstein is doing so badly.
interestning and not suprising. i play the french and get the exchange variation in like 75% of my games so i know it well and win alot. if you want to go straight into black preparation play the exchange. also 3.exd5 is also already a minor victory for black as the bishop on c8 isnt blocked in
rubinstein is solid if you know it well but if not white get alot of space and pieces to good squares black must be careful or he can lose quickly i think that explains it
cool idea
Is there any strong player who can explain me, what is wrong with 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Nf3 Be7 5.g3 c5 6.Bg2 Nc6 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 d4
It isnt played by GMs, is there a refutation?
It looks ugly. What is the Pawn on d4 supposed to be doing? It prevents Ne3 (after Nf1) but the Knight has an alternate route to g4 anyway.
White will probably answer with e5 and just play it as a normal KIA. Black meanwhile has given up control of e4 and c4 by advancing that Pawn, made it more difficult to play b5, and reduced the effectiveness of Qc7 (since the line 9. e5 Nd7 10. Nf1 Qc7 11. Qe2 Nd4 is no longer possible).
i agree, but it really seems that the Bukavshin line (mentioned by the IM) is a real test for the Kia totally underestimated the line. It is obvious that an IM is far better than me when it comes to skills, but also this one outclasses me in the kia (no sarcasm)