Taking the fight to white in Ruy Lopez, which variations should I look for?

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ConfusedGhoul

it depends, I don't play the ruy lopez with white so it would be easy for me to get worse but if it's part of my repertoire obviously I know how to play for the win but against a very strong player I would repeat at least once to see what they are going to do. Not everyone is like you, most people would jump at the opportunity to force a draw against Magnus or anyone that is going to give them rating for a draw

SamuelAjedrez95
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

it depends, I don't play the ruy lopez with white so it would be easy for me to get worse but if it's part of my repertoire obviously I know how to play for the win but against a very strong player I would repeat at least once to see what they are going to do. Not everyone is like you, most people would jump at the opportunity to force a draw against Magnus or anyone that is going to give them rating for a draw

It's just a lame way of playing because it's anti-fun. You just play a game online like "ok, I'll force a known draw", very lame. Even against Magnus, it's a known draw so there's nothing to be gained or learned from it.

I would only force a draw if it was from a totally losing position, not when the position is still good for white. It doesn't matter if it's against Magnus Carlsen or whoever.

ConfusedGhoul

Good for you, I'm happy you're an ambitious player and I wish every opponent of mine thought like you

Andrewtopia
LordVandheer wrote:

Yeah, Schliemann seems a little less sound than the other options given here but it seems it is a weapon in practice. Also heard a lot about Marshall, I am gonna take a look into that.

The other variations shown here are clearly sound but I need to learn a lot of ideas before employing those. 

Until then I suppose I want agression right out of the gate.

As a note to the Marshall, there a sideline with 9. d4 (instead of 9. exd5) that you should probably look over at some point.

 

EKAFC
Andrewtopia wrote:

As a note to the Marshall, there a sideline with 9. d4 (instead of 9. exd5) that you should probably look over at some point.

That is a very interesting line. You still win a pawn and most people don't even prepare for something like this. 

SamuelAjedrez95
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

Good for you, I'm happy you're an ambitious player and I wish every opponent of mine thought like you

But the vast majority of people don't try to force the draw.

If this was that much of a flaw for black then no-one would play the Zaitsev but it's the 3rd most popular variation. If opponent wants to insist on the draw then you can play h6. It's just the fact that white hasn't really gained anything by doing this, as it's still a useful move for black.

h6 is pretty much always black's next move anyway, this is the main line:

 

Psicojova

Wow

LordVandheer

Thanks for everyone who commented on this thread, I opted for Schleimann for now, as it can not be avoided like Marshall attack for example, but god damn it hurts my soul anytime I try to go for Marshall and white just goes 'I have a headache'. sad.png

Schleimann is sound enough that I wont be in much trouble and looks like I will be well trained in Close Ruy because how many blueballs I get from a Marshall Attack that will be denied. 

SamuelAjedrez95
LordVandheer wrote:

Thanks for everyone who commented on this thread, I opted for Schleimann for now, as it can not be avoided like Marshall attack for example, but god damn it hurts my soul anytime I try to go for Marshall and white just goes 'I have a headache'.

Schleimann is sound enough that I wont be in much trouble and looks like I will be well trained in Close Ruy because how many blueballs I get from a Marshall Attack that will be denied. 

RIP Zaitsev and Marshall Attack 😭 Lol.

The Schliemann is a good choice as well though. Best of luck!

LordVandheer
Chill_Vibes_Incoming wrote:

Schlimenn or the jaenisch gambit is very good. I used to play it on my alt account it opens up the f file and you can have crazy attacks gothamchess has a video on it which I reccomend you watch I think it's called like crush e4 with this black gambit.

 

I appreciate the contribution but please do not suggest Levy to me, thank you. 🤢

LordVandheer
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
LordVandheer wrote:

Thanks for everyone who commented on this thread, I opted for Schleimann for now, as it can not be avoided like Marshall attack for example, but god damn it hurts my soul anytime I try to go for Marshall and white just goes 'I have a headache'.

Schleimann is sound enough that I wont be in much trouble and looks like I will be well trained in Close Ruy because how many blueballs I get from a Marshall Attack that will be denied. 

RIP Zaitsev and Marshall Attack 😭 Lol.

The Schliemann is a good choice as well though. Best of luck!

Its just white is not going c3 like I wish. I probably have a higher chance of playing it at like 1500 and up.

SamuelAjedrez95
LordVandheer wrote:

Its just white is not going c3 like I wish. I probably have a higher chance of playing it at like 1500 and up.

I mean it's kind of a good thing that they don't play c3 technically and you can adapt, but it sucks to not get the line you want.

Unfortunately, at the highest levels the Marshall Attack has become a drawing weapon so it's normal for GMs to avoid it. A lot of people aren't going to be so keen on defending that position on all levels either. For white, it's kind of just a sequence of forcing moves or they will end up worse.

SamuelAjedrez95

Schliemann is different because

  1. It can't be avoided.
  2. It's a fight on both sides.
SamuelAjedrez95

Andras Toth recommends the Schliemann as part of a beginner e5 repertoire.

LordVandheer

What I like about him is (aside from trashing London mentality that is) that he suggests new players should play sharp stuff like Sicillian and face a lot of different structures. 

What I am liking about Schleimann is that the f file is a menace, like Andras points out in the video when it comes to practicality of it. Its definitely a weakness on higher levels, but until then, lots of fun is on the way.