The Catalan: renewed discussion

I have been on a quest to find the best opening for me as white....I went through several chess websites for suitable recommendations and I was about to pick one when I stumbled into the "openings" section in the "learning" category on chess.com....I went through every opening listed and viewed the pros and cons of each...until I found.....

THE CATALAN.......

I was Impressed......really impressed......I learned about it (and still am) on YouTube....I was happy with it as the best opening for me...if not at all...it just had everything I needed to focus on....it's also one of the rarest openings to be played in my level...which almost guarantees a powerful advantage.....

Not long afterwards...I searched for sample opinions about it on Google....there was the surprise.....

In a chess.com forum topic from 2017...someone asked if it was good for him to play the Catalan (he was about 1600 in rating then), although he asked an IM the same question previously...that IM said that this opening was too complex for him....he said that only experts of 2300+ should play it.....some comments said it was fine...some said it was foolish to ask non experts as he already had an answer from an expert......they say that it's only stupid to ignore an expert's answer (which makes a lot of sense)

This is were I began to think....is he (the IM) right?

My father always told me before : "if you want to improve quickly at something, train with the experts IN THE WAY OF EXPERTS, not with and like those who are as good as you..."

This advice's application in this position....if I understand clearly....that if the GMs play special openings in special ways....I should try and do the same....that is the best way to get better....

And what is this special opening? The Catalan, or so the IM said...

So, what do you think?...would working on the catalan help me, or hinder me?...

As for the complexity of the opening....wouldn't watching detailed lessons and deeply analysed games featuring the Catalan solve it?...surely I am not going to learn by myself...and how is it too complex if there is an expert explaining every move and every plan presented through the lessons?

Hi, I have also been trying to learn the catalan opening. My blitz rating is 1022 currently. Here is my perspective on this question. I have been using the videos in the mastery section for this, there is a series on the catalan. My first point is that this opening is meant for people mastering the game, so it would be really complicated. Also, the videos in that section don’t cover everything. For example, the entire four videos talk about what to do when black captures the pawn, and 4 different variations of what black can do to protect it,and nothing about if he doesn’t take the pawn. And, almost every time I play it someone does something unexpected that I’m not prepared for. Maybe the videos you have are better, but I am starting to realize if we learn a simpiler opening, and focus on improving our chess level in general, we would be more suited for learning it in the future. Let me know what you think about this.

I think the catalan is a very good choice. I used it and made a jump above 1500 and 1600 rapid.

How did you learn the opening?

I learned the opening from YouTube...I haven't used the videos from the mastery section yet...

As I understand from what you said Mr.cubelogic, the videos on chess.com feature the open Catalan only....the YouTube videos feature the closed Catalan (when black doesn't take the pawn on turn 4) with good details...

All in all, thank you everyone!...

Oh...Mr.jonathanmaxwell,  so you were successful with it at 1500? Great!.....so it isn't that impossible....

Openings don't matter at your level, your opponents will deviate in the first 10 moves.

Openings don't matter at level? But I, as an intermediate, don't have the skills to succeed without the "knowing the opening" advantage....that's why openings are taught even to kids! It's always agreed by GMs that openings are equally important for beginners just as everything!....

With all due respect, On what base do you give your advice?

You don't know what intermediate means, an intermediate is 1800+. At my level openings do matter, at your level anything that doesn't hang material is viable.

.Mr.cubelogic...I remembered that the one disadvantage of the Catalan is that black can generally "avoid" the Catalan by forcing the turning into another opening....but, this drives the whole game out of theory...which neutralises the opening knowledge advantage for both sides....that's better than risk letting black use his superior knowledge in defence against any other "common" opening...

Playing something unexpected by black is the expected think to see when using the Catalan...but it's all for the good!...

As my father said...if it's too complicated, then it's good to learn from it! (Surely nobody will explore anything himself...everything is easier with the help of an online tutor from YouTube!)

All said...I personally think that the Catalan is fine for me now....maybe you would agree with me if you watch YouTube videos about the Catalan...it's much better than those on chess.com (or so as I understood from you), especially about the more common closed Catalan.....

An intermediate is 1800+? I thought that people that level were almost professional! ...but if that's is the case then I am sorry.....although this does press my point that opening knowledge is required even further...

You don't understand, you don't have the positional understanding to play the catalan. If you think you have the positional understanding to play it, play me in a blitz game as white. You'll play the catalan, and I'll show you how hard it's to play.

!!!!!!!....

Eh.....it is that hard?....alright....

I'm sorry for refusing your offer...I haven't played a single blitz game before...and I know that you are a lot better chess player .....so my loss is a certainty with or without the Catalan,unless you are willing to help me by correcting my mistakes? I would really appreciate such help from a stronger player....

I'll show your mistakes.

MandelbrotZoom, so are you saying that we shouldn't play the opponening until we are better chess players and have better positional play? On the other hand, our opponents also probably wouldn't have the best positional play, so wouldn't knowing the theory give us an advantage on how to respond to their moves?

In that sense, wouldn't the opening be fine to play?

I don't think that it's necessarily good to train in the way of the experts, because the experts have a lot more experience and way higher understanding of the game itself

To play the Catalan you have to be able to convert small positional advantages, at your level, people can't even convert an extra minor piece.

+1  I think that the Catalan should only be played by 2000+ and even then only those with a very deep positional understanding of it. I am an OTB Expert and 2300 Blitz here and I doubt I have the positional skills necessary to play the Catalan successfully OTB. And if the Catalan is too positionally demanding for me, there is no way a 1000, 1200, 1600, etc. should even consider it as they do not even have close to the skills to grind with White in the Catalan. I would say this applies to several other openings like the English, Berlin Wall, etc.