Tips for facing the queen's gambit chigorin?

Sort:
NativeChessMinerals

I played against this recently and got a roughly equal position. Can white get more without accepting wild play? Wild play is ok, but without prep I wasn't going to try anything. Of course a plus without risk is the best. I thought there may be a way because this isn't often seen at high levels. Thanks for any info!



kindaspongey

Perhaps help can be foumd in:

A Strategic Chess Opening Repertoire for White by John Watson (2012)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627105428/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen161.pdf

Playing 1.d4: The Queen's Gambit by Lars Schandorff (2012)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626221508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen162.pdf

The Kaufman Repertoire for Black & White by Larry Kaufman (2012)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626221508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen162.pdf

Grandmaster Repertoire 1: 1.d4, Vol. 1 by Boris Avrukh (2008)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627012924/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen119.pdf

NativeChessMinerals

I was just looking for someone's pet line ;)

You know, there's the theoretical best, and there's also practical lines that aren't quite as good, but may give you something like an annoying and very persistent edge... even though it's not objectively as good as what a GM's prepared line would be.

kindaspongey

I think at least some of the lines in these books are chosen "because of the lower volume of theory, which offers less complexity." I suppose it could still be that they are too much trouble. Maybe try Starting Out: The Queen's Gambit by John Shaw (2002).

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627062050/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen45.pdf

moonnie

I do not really see why you do not think it is a challenging line. 

In my opinion this kind of resembles the queensgambit exchange (a pretty respectable setup itself) but with a few bonuses for white. 

  1. The knight on c6 is quite badly placed. It would rather be on d7 so that black can play c6 and Nd7-->f8-->g6 hitting the darksquared bishop. 
  2. The bishop on g4 looks active but will probably have to be recycled to the h7-b1 diagnonal to counter the white counterpart that is coming to d3. 

So in short this is a slightly better version of the queensgambit exchange variation. 

Spectator94

The Chigorin is nice for players who prefer piece play over pawn play. My pet line, as White, is 3. Nc3. Then if Black plays 3...dxc4 4 d5! Ne5 5 f4 Ng6 6 e4 looks like an Alekhine and even though are many viable paths for White to take this is my favorite. White got a broad center and if you know how to play from there you'll have a decent, lasting advantage. 3...dxc4 is by no means forced by the way but it's one of the most popular moves because Nc3 also attacks d5 and if Black plays e6 the light squared bishop is locked in and as I mentioned already the Chigorin likes piece play. Nf6 is another option, then there's some sharp lines involving Bg5 from White to exert more pressure on d5. And Nc3 also simply develops a piece after all.

PeskyGnat

The only thing about 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. d5 is White needs to have something prepared for 4...Na5?!, it's a dubious plan where Black sacs the knight for a few pawns and aims for complications.  If white doesn't react accurately, Black gets a typical complicated struggle.

Spectator94
PeskyGnat wrote:

The only thing about 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. d5 is White needs to have something prepared for 4...Na5?!, it's a dubious plan where Black sacs the knight for a few pawns and aims for complications.  If white doesn't react accurately, Black gets a typical complicated struggle.

It's considered so dubious that one look at it will give you certain wins for the rest of your days.

NativeChessMinerals

There are various openings that go down a pawn, or two, sometimes more for compensation. Strong players have tried them, the cpu says go for it, but it's terrifying.

But this line with a piece for 2 pawns (plus probably a 3rd) looks fun to me. How funny that a pawn or two would scare me off, but this mess looks fun


FWIW the Dereque Kelley guy on youtube said d5 isn't best... not that he's the leading expert on the line and not that it wasn't anything more than an intro video.

PeskyGnat
Gilasaurus wrote:
PeskyGnat wrote:

The only thing about 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. d5 is White needs to have something prepared for 4...Na5?!, it's a dubious plan where Black sacs the knight for a few pawns and aims for complications.  If white doesn't react accurately, Black gets a typical complicated struggle.

It's considered so dubious that one look at it will give you certain wins for the rest of your days.

For sure it's dubious, but it needs at least that one look in the same way a Petroff player needs to look at Cochrane's gambit.

Back to the line 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. d5 Ne5 5. f4, both 5...Nd7 and 5...Ng4 are both playable and likey more sound than 5...Ng6

Spectator94

Dereque Kelley has a ton of opening video's and isn't an expert in any specific line

Spectator94

I didn't check the amount of games with Nd7, Ng6 or Ng4 but it doesn't matter for my statement, it's still about a broad center for White and an advantage.

PeskyGnat

I would take a look at 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. e4

Spectator94

Avrukh prefers 4. Nf3 instead of 4. d5 in his Grandmaster Repertoire volume One and he also likes to follow up with Bg5 at one point.

D0Nt8lockmYip
BettorOffSingle wrote:
NativeChessMinerals wrote:

I played against this recently and got a roughly equal position. Can white get more without accepting wild play? Wild play is ok, but without prep I wasn't going to try anything. Of course a plus without risk is the best. I thought there may be a way because this isn't often seen at high levels. Thanks for any info!

2...dxc4 works for me.

Are you a dolt?  This is a thread about the Chigorin, not the QGA

kindaspongey

Just as a historical note, this was how one of the games went when Kasparov played against Smyslov in 1984: 1 d4 d5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 c4 Bg4 4 cxd5 Bxf3 5 gxf3 Qxd5 6 e3 e5 7 Nc3 Bb4 8 Bd2 Bxc3 9 bxc3 Qd6 10 Rb1 b6 11 f4 exf4 12 e4 Nge7 13 Qf3 O-O 14 Bxf4 Qa3 15 Be2 f5 16 O-O fxe4 17 Qxe4 Qxc3 18 Be3 Qa3 19 Bd3 Qd6 20 Qxh7+ Kf7 21 Rb5 Nxd4 22 Qe4 Rad8 23 Bxd4 Qxd4 24 Rf5+ Nxf5 25 Qxf5+ Kg8 26 Qh7+ 1/2-1/2