Forums

Two Knights' Defense 5.exd5 Na5 8.Bd3 =

Sort:
sloughterchess
eddysallin wrote:
aggressivesociopath wrote:

Are you claiming an  advantage for White in the line 8. Bd3 Nd5 9. Nf3 Nf4 10. O-O Bd6 11. Re1 Nxd3? I would think that the bishop pair and white's doubled pawns would give Black compensation.

White seems to be better with the exchange sacrifice 8. Bd3 Ng4 9. Ne4 f5 10. Be2 h5 11. h3 fxe4 12. hxg4 Bc5 13. b4 Qd4 14. bxc5 O-O 15. O-O Qxa1, which I would mark as the mainline of Ng4 line.

I have to say looking over a few master games in a database is probably a better way to do opening research then having two computers play each other.

Go w/ master,G.M. games....computers lead lower rated players into believing they can play chess.

 

This is the way to think of theory today---Masters are elementary school students. The World Champion is about a middle schooler and Houdini 3 is a high school student. While the elementary school student can occasionally come up with pearls of wisdom, I'm more inclined to believe the high school student's opinion in sharp positions.

aggressivesociopath

Wow I actually spent the last two days thinking this thread was about opening analyses propounded by a community of rational adults for peer review. Instead it is about sloughterchess' love of Houdini 3. I appear to have become the spokesman for studying mastergames because I put a position in a free online database and noticed that there was a clear mainline that his computer ignored. At some point titled players took over for me, however sloughterchess won't listen; he will apperently only accept forced wins as evidence that his computer is wrong. Alas the internet is the internet and I post this as a warning:

DON'T FEED TROLLS

sloughterchess
pfren wrote:

19...Bf5 begs for 20.g4 Be6 21.Ba3, when you have granted white a useful extra move (g2-g4) over the more natural (and better) 19...Be6.

Either your Houdini is broken, or you have no clue how to use your rig.

 

If you really believe that "you have granted white a useful extra move g2-g4 over the natural (and better) 19...Be6", you apparently don't understand basic endgame principles. This is not a "squeeze", nor are you trying to triangulate, this is a simple endgame where time is irrelevant i.e. there are a host of moves that either side could make that are equivalent and don't move the game away from equality.

To suggest that g2-g4 gains a tempo shows a surprising lack of basic chess knowledge. According to you White stands better after g2-g4 if the Bishop is on f5. The fact that you honestly believe bumping the Bishop with g4 accomplishes something good for White shows an amazing  lack of familiarity with basic chess principles. Chess apparently confuses you.

OldHastonian
sloughterchess wrote:

The fact that you honestly believe bumping the Bishop with g4 accomplishes something good for White shows an amazing  lack of familiarity with basic chess principles. Chess apparently confuses you.

Hey, this is IM pfren you're talking about!

How dare you, he is a chess.com legend, at least on a par with D.Pruess.

BirdBrain

Ah, what does pfren know...he is only an IM!  He could stand to take a lesson from sloughter!  ;-)

sloughterchess
pfren wrote:

sloughter, now I am convinced that you can't be THAT stupid. To put it simply, being an attention whore, you do it on purpose.

Regards.

Phren I can't believe that you really really believe that g4 gains a tempo. I leave it to post members to decide whether Be6 is "superior" to Bf5, because White "gains a tempo with g4". You are right! I can't believe you don't understand that there are a wide assortment of equivalent moves something that apparently eludes you.

sloughterchess
pfren wrote:

19...Bf5 begs for 20.g4 Be6 21.Ba3, when you have granted white a useful extra move (g2-g4) over the more natural (and better) 19...Be6.

Either your Houdini is broken, or you have no clue how to use your rig.


I decided to feed the two positions into Houdini 3 for its evaluation: At a depth of 28 with 19... Bf5, it evaluates the positions as 0.00.

With 19...Be6 at a depth of 27 Houdini evaluates the position as 0.00. Do you still maintain that White "gains a tempo" with g4?

I recommend you take up checkers.

asmund_hammerstad

sloughterchess Do you even understand chess at all? You have 11 losses one win and 1 draw at online chess. You at least don't cheat..

sloughterchess
asmund_hammerstad wrote:

sloughterchess Do you even understand chess at all? You have 11 losses one win and 1 draw at online chess. You at least don't cheat..

By the same token I finished tied for first in the 2012 New York State Open (U1800) and second place finish in 2011. One published game in Inside Chess, three in Chess Life. Three awards from Chess Life for my theories, numerous GM's have published my theories in Chess Life, including World Champion Garry Kasparov, published dozens of articles and three critically acclaimed books. An IM is going to coauthor a book with me on the TKD and the Evans Gambit. When she was a teenager even GM Judit Polgar appreciated my ideas. Yes I understand chess, but on line discussions don't serve me particularly well. Rather than a discussion of ideas it degrades into a discussion of personalities.

Those who can do--those who can't teach

asmund_hammerstad

Ok your online rating still seems extremely low. You almost can't make one single move without an error with such a poor rating.

I agree with the those who can't teach, but then I think of players with at least 2000 rating themselves.. Anyway all I can say is good luck and enjoy your chess. I am sure you know a lot of things if I should trust your own decscription of your merit of chess experience. 

Thanks for following this thread. I feel I have done my part here and will now unfollow it. 

sloughterchess
pfren wrote:

I didn't know neither that Garrik has issued three books on standup comedy, nor that Jutka is interested in acey-deucey.

Your only title that I'm aware of is that of the official Chesspub forum clown.

 

For three years I have promoted the idea that 8.Qf3 should be the main line of the 5...Na5 line of the Two Knights' Defense. That belief has been validated by a recent post by a member that 8.Be2 scores poorly even though on a theoretical level it is okay. As indicated in this post 8.Bd3 confers no advantage to White.

For over 20 years I have promoted 4.Ng5 in the Two Knights' Defense, and, with the aid of Houdini pretty much established my goal of demonstrating advantage White in all the key variations except 8.Qf3 Be7 which appears equal.

When I am wrong I will admit it. Are you willing to admit you are wrong that 16...Be6 is a "useful" move or should we believe that your understanding of chess is so poor, you don't understand the basics of endgame play?

C-nack
sloughterchess wrote:
asmund_hammerstad wrote:

sloughterchess Do you even understand chess at all? You have 11 losses one win and 1 draw at online chess. You at least don't cheat..

By the same token I finished tied for first in the 2012 New York State Open (U1800) and second place finish in 2011. One published game in Inside Chess, three in Chess Life. Three awards from Chess Life for my theories, numerous GM's have published my theories in Chess Life, including World Champion Garry Kasparov, published dozens of articles and three critically acclaimed books. An IM is going to coauthor a book with me on the TKD and the Evans Gambit. When she was a teenager even GM Judit Polgar appreciated my ideas. Yes I understand chess, but on line discussions don't serve me particularly well. Rather than a discussion of ideas it degrades into a discussion of personalities.

Those who can do--those who can't teach

 

U1800 competitor and respected by numerous GMs. Don't make me laugh, they probably feel sorry for you and tell you good things out of compassion.

sloughterchess
Moses2792796 wrote:

Or more likely that entire rant was complete and utter bullshit.  It's pretty clear this guy is on some kind of ego trip or he's just given up on ever being a decent player and makes himself feel better by pretending to know far more about theory than he actually does.  I wonder if it ever occured to him that masters also have access to Houdini...

 

You have provided the rant; I provided the facts. Just google my name and the New York State Open and you can verify my finishes in those events. If you go online check out the reviews of my books. Some are positive others are negative. If you have access to Chess Life  over the  past 30 years, you will find ample evidence that all I have said is true. Can you actually document a single false statement I have made in this "rant"?

sloughterchess

The original purpose of this thread was to test my observation that 8.Bd3 is equal. In the main line where White plays b4, it is possible to document that White has no advantage just as long as Black plays an early e3 to eliminate his pawn weaknesses. In the ensuing position White can only activate his Queen by sacrificing his Queen Bishop. Indeed this is the line recommended by Houdini---i.e for White to force a draw by repetition.

If White decides to permit the exchange of Queens, then Black has an ample number of targets for his Rook. Even though White has Bishop and two pawns for the Rook his pawn structure is a shambles and gives Black excellent chances to pick off weak pawns with a Rook invasion to the seventh or the eighth.

My original post of Ng3 instead of h3 is a better chance for White to achieve a plus, but the advanced pawn mass and Black's lead in development gives Black excellent chances. It is clear that 8.Bd3 promises White very little, and, indeed, 8.Be2 and 8.Qf3 are better tries for a plus.

sloughterchess
Moses2792796 wrote:

Or more likely that entire rant was complete and utter bullshit.  It's pretty clear this guy is on some kind of ego trip or he's just given up on ever being a decent player and makes himself feel better by pretending to know far more about theory than he actually does.  I wonder if it ever occured to him that masters also have access to Houdini...

 

Here are the facts: My book The Evans Gambit Revolution was published by Ken Smith of Chess Digest in 1995. GM Andy Soltis in the New York Post called it, "An original analysis of an old opening". Ken devoted more advertising space to my book than any books written by World Champions. This included half the outside back cover of the Winter 1995 Catalog and the entire inside back cover of his catalog. He was a NM and  clearly liked my ideas.

GM Larry Evans awarded me the "Best Question" in his column for this innovation in the Two Knights Defense: 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Nxd5 6.O-O The earliest novelty in the 500 year old history of the Fried Liver.

My innovation 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Qe2?! N was the subject of a contest I sponsored in FM Alex Dunne's column in Chess Life and the subject of analysis by World Champion Garry Kasparov. The co-winners were Rigby and Green.

My innovation in the Petroff against Klein, Corr. 1994,  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Qe2 Nc6 4.d4 N was published in its entirety in Inside Chess, v.10,  issue 3, page 3

GM Lev Alburt published a game of mine against Fritz 12 where I almost beat it, but missed a key attacking concept. The game was published in the February 2011 issue of Chess Life.

ICM John Elburg gave a good review of my book Magic called it "Amazing!" and I got a good review from Rick Kennedy (Just google this on line). Other reviewers were far more critical.

When she was a teenager I sent GM Judit Polgar some of my ideas in the Kings's Indian and the Richter-Rauzer (an early g4; I didn't realize at the time but according to Susan Polgar this is her trademark move). Did you know that she signs her letters with a smiley face?

 

BirdBrain

Sloughter, put your money where your mouth is and play OTB blitz against pfren and prove your point.

sloughterchess
BirdBrain wrote:

Sloughter, put your money where your mouth is and play OTB blitz against pfren and prove your point.

In the subject position after 8...Ng4 I would be willing to play correspondence games. I lost a half dozen on line games when my dial up connection did not allow me to play in a timely fashion (it would crash) and routinely was forfeited. Correspondence games are the best way to test the variation. I sent off the 8...Ng4 variation to GM Lev Alburt and will have more information on the variation in a couple of weeks.

sloughterchess
[COMMENT DELETED]
sloughterchess

Most of my games are poorly played. This game published in Chess Life may have some bearing on theory and gives a better indication of my playing strength when my game is "on".

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.c4 Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 d6?! (Too passive--Bb4 =) 6.Nc3 Nf6 7.Nc2! Qa5 8.f3 Be7 9.Ne3! (With an absolute bind on d5) O-O 10.Be2 Bd7 11.O-O Qc5 12.Kh1 h5?! 13.Nc2 h4 14.Be3 Qh5 15.f4 Qg6 16.Bf3 a6 17.a4 h3?! 18.Rg1 hxg2ch 19.Rxg2 Qh7 20.Qe2 Rfc8 21.Rag1 g6 22.e5?! (GM Alburt suggested h4, "with a strong attack") dxe5 23.Nxe5 24.Bxb7 Bc6! (What I missed when playing e5) 25.Bxc6 Nxc6 26.Rf1?! (Bg5) Nd7 27.Ne4 Nce5 28.b3 a5 29.Nd4 Qh4 30.Rf4 Qh7 31.Nb5 f5 32.Ned6 Rc6 33.Nxf5? (Rd4 Raa6 34.Bd4 with massive exchanges) exf5 34.Rxf5 Re8 35.Nd4 Rf6 36.Rh5 Qf7 37.Rh6 Bf8 38.Rh3 Bc5 39.Qh5 Rf1ch 40.Bg1 Qg7 41.Rhg3 Bxd4 0-1

C-nack
[COMMENT DELETED]