Variations that people never use and you don't know why

I was wondering about a certain variation of the Sicilian that I don't think I've ever seen, but I don't know why not. Chessmaster doesn't list it as an option in its database, so I was wondering what you all thought:

4. ... e5 is a move I have never seen during the Sicilian, but it looks like a viable option - you haven't blocked any pieces, you're forcing the knight away from a good square, you can follow it up with the development of other pieces and it adds to your pawn structure. If anyone could clear it up, I'd be grateful.

Also, does anyone else know of an opening that they feel the same way about?

In the position given after 5 Bb5+ black already has problems. This is why you dont see 4....e5  much at all.

From what I understand, this variation is not played because of the move Bb5+.  After Bb5+, Nc6 just loses the knight, and Nd7 allows white to play Nf5, threatening a quick attack against black's uncastled king; the other option, Bd7, also leads to Nf5 after an exchange of the bishops.  In addition, the d-pawn is a backwards pawn an open file, and can quickly have several pieces brought against it. 

I must have missed Bb5+ beforehand. Thanks. However, I don't see how Nf5 is really a problem; it can't do anything immediately, and by the time the other bishop's come out black will have responded.

What about if black played 4... Nc6 (or Bd7), followed by 5. Nc3 e4 ? There's probably something better than Nc3 for white, but I've never seen e4 listed as an option at any stage during the Sicilian except maybe a lot later.

I think it isnt played as

and why the venonat as the display pic?

Ok, I think I understand the Nf5 thing. Anyone know about the second point I made before?

It's because Venonat is awesome :P

I've played a variation like it. it goes 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 

the pelikan variation

The possibility of B5+ isn't there. It leads to unusual tactical positions which is why I like it.

the lowenthal variation is also plays e5 in the sicilian and it gives black big attacking chances for horrible king safty

Ok, I think I understand the Nf5 thing. Anyone know about the second point I made before?

Cerdog

I assume you mean 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5. Nc3 e5. There is nothing wrong with this opening and Black can play it and it can transpose to well known openings. That being said I must also say if you check carefully it does not have a great reputation. You are better off not playing e5 quite so quickly and follow the main lines. Its much safer, if you consider the Sicilian safe. 

hey draco-alpine. i support liverpool too! YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE!!!

There are two ...e5 lines that are regularly played: 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd5 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 e5 (the Pelikan / Sveshnikov), and 4...e5 in that line (the Kalashnikov "because it's very dangerous, for both sides"). The first is played a lot at top level, and perfectly normal. The second slightly less so.

In the Sveshnikov, White has to play 6.Nb5 to have a chance for an advantage, because otherwise black plays ...Bb4 and has reasonably easy play. But after 6.Nb5 d6 7.Bg5 a6 8.Na3 b5, the knight will be locked up on a3 for a while.

Also, in general in the Sicilian, Black often plays Nf6 on move 4 to encourage 5.Nc3, ruling out a Maroczy bind structure (with pawns on c4 and e4).

So after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6, one of the first things to look at would be 5.c4. Does Black have better than going into the Maroczy lines of the accelerated dragon? (that'd be playing ...g6 soon). Playing for ...e5 in this structure looks very scary.

Secondly after 5.Nc3!? e5!?, Black doesn't have ...Bb4, so White has a choice for his knight. Can't analyze here, but at least 6.Nf3 and 6.Nb3 are more of an option for White now, 6.Nb5 isn't forced.

So if I were you, I'd prefer any of the more traditional move orders to play ...e5 :-)

i'm sorry to have bumped an old thread, but did not want to start a new one as i too puzzled some over a similar variant?

5.Nf3 is not the best move. White should play 5.Nb5, and whether Black opts for a Kalashnikov (with ...a6) or a Sveshnikov (with ...d6) -like setup White should have a clear advantage thanks to the extra tempo.

There is also the Lowenthal varaition, if you want to explore offshoots. The Pelikan was developed as a way to improve on the older variation. http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/opening/2129

The Loewenthal is the older name for the Kalashnikov. Going that route would be particularly bad in Lofina's line, with the knight on b8 rather than c6 Black would be deprived of the counterplay characteristic of that variation.

If u really want to play e5 for black, why losing a tempo with e6? U can develop a piece with Nc6, and then e5 will be either a Lowenthal, either a Kalashnikov.

Lowenthal is en economic way to play sicilian, few variations (compared to other sicilians), less known, agressive, and it quite respectable!

yes, thank you for pointing that out.......

the game/line/variation I thought of trying out was........(me as black playing COMP)

this is a game I liked