Wanted: UCO vs Caro-Kann

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ericmittens

I wouldn't put the Pirc and the French in the same league as the Caro Kann or the Berlin. Heck I wouldn't even put the Caro Kann in the same league as the Berlin.

The Pirc and French are dynamic, unbalanced (and therefore risky) ways to fight for the initiative as black. The Caro-Kann is a solid, safe system to fight for positional equality. The Berlin is an immediate transposition into a queenless endgame...which makes it extremely dull.

Daniel3

All of those defences, alike or not, are solid for Black. I'm just saying that Black can win too!

I have never played the Berlin Dfence before, (I think it dull too.) but the Pirc seems risky nowadays because of the many refutation lines against it.

The French is somewhat dull as well, but can lead to dynamic play later on if you know what you're doing.

ericmittens
Daniel3 wrote:

All of those defences, alike or not, are solid for Black.


In some lines yes, but not all, some are very sharp (winawer french, austrian attack in pirc...I could name you many other variations).

The Pirc as far as I know has never been refuted. Some lines lead to a small advantage for white, but that's how it is in every mainstream opening (The rest lead to a large advantage for white).

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Yes, I too call shenanigans on the "Pirc has been refuted" bit.

Daniel3

Every heard of the Geller Quiet System? The line with the e5 advance simply tears right through the Pirc!

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Post the variation.

ericmittens

Apparently the Geller system of the pirc includes an early c3 by white, instead of Nc3.

http://www.exeterchessclub.org.uk/Openings/modern2.html

It's basically just a more conservative classical system...and I don't see how it would pose black any extra problems.

Daniel3

This system causes many early problems for Black. In particular, his Knight on h5 is not very strong, and the e-file has been successfully opened. These moves have been proven to be the best for both sides, so I'm not trying to bash the Pirc.

ericmittens

That's not the Gellar system that's the regular classical system.

Certainly the classical is a legitimate try for an advantage for white, but it's by no means a refutation.

TheOldReb

Too bad Spassky didnt know the refutation to the pirc when he played Fischer in 1972..... Wink

Daniel3

I have had trouble playing the Black side of this position. And that is the Geller System.

ericmittens

Ahh sorry you're right, I misread the openings site I was looking at. That is indeed the Gellar system of the classical pirc. Laughing

 

Still, it's not a refutation and it shouldn't stop anyone from playing the pirc.

Daniel3

No, of course not! I have played the pirc many times in my own games. I have only found it to not work for me as much as other defenses, that's all.

ozzie_c_cobblepot

I'm accustomed to having a pawn on c6

ozzie_c_cobblepot

If we ever play and you have white, I fully expect you to play 1.d4!

ozzie_c_cobblepot

What is UCO?