What do you think about the Polish Opening/Orangutan?

i dont think Miles went so far as to say its an improvement as he played a mean b6 himself and played it quite often, whereas the only memorable a6 game was the stunning Karpov victory . But the wasted tempi is partially compensated by the space advantage of the pawn on b5 by threatening the c4 square and b4-b5 push vs a c3 knight. 

The Grob is objectively busted man.  idk why this guy keeps bringing it up. Basman got away with playing it because he was a a creative genius who took it seriously and his opponents didnt and he was most active when engines werent guiding our opening theory so he became the authority in his own opening. In the current age where even a class player with a modicum of effort can dish out 15 moves of depth 50 cloud engine comp analysis, this kind of stuff can only exist in the realm of surprise value. 

the litmus test of how viable an opening is, is how terrible your opening ends up agaisnt 20-25 moves of near perfect play. If the end position is halfway reasonable, you are a probably ok, but if you are begging for a limping draw where you are worse the whole game or are -2 in an otherwise messy position, its just busted and its bad.

If white opening gives you equality and a rich position, its fine, if a black opening equalizes by move 20 or so, its fine. Anything deviating from these and you get differing degrees of bad.

#45
This was Miles' own comment on his win over Karpov:

"As far as I know, the only person to play 1...a6 (or 1 d4 b5 2 e4 a6) with the same idea as myself is Michael Basman (not completely surprising as we both ’invented’ the idea as an improvement on 1...b6"

You can look at grandmaster games, but they aren't the only factor. At GM level the kings gambit is a "busted" opening that relies alot on traps, but it can still be played. The Scandinavian is barely seen at GM level, but it still works etc. 

On the other hand, GM's love the "Berlin Wall" against the Ruy, but how many "recreational" players use that? 

#48
That is the whole point. At recreational level the opening does not matter at all. White can play any of the 20 possible first moves and black can reply to each of these by any of the 20 possible replies. The games get decided by later blunders.

We will see neither the Polish Opening/Orangutan nor the Grob in the upcoming World Championship, but at master level both are playable, even reverse as black with one tempo less.

I wouldn't say that it doesn't matter at all since there are some gambit lines with known refutations that you can memorize. Other than that, the only thing that really matters is that you are more prepared than your opponent.

that was tongue in cheek, given that Miles kept playing b6 in high level games but almost never played 1.a6. 

"What do you think about the Polish Opening/Orangutan?"

G_y !

It is playable. After reading Bassman's book and collecting similar games, I practically only play 1.e4, e6.2.d4, a6 (with the fascinating line 3.c4, b5.4.cb5, Bb7) or also 1.d4, b5. It honestly has a great effect in fast games, although I have also played it with good results in slow games. Fide 2153.

Maybe i have played more de 2000 Blitz games.

I can't believe that nobody mentioned the most famous Orangutan game in history! Wilson the Chess Hustler against Maurice Ashley in Washington Square Park. 8.8 million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5vnpOp0U_g

OK, thanks.

txgc you a pos you are only here to troll in several of the forums. Contribute something useful instead of your usual garbage.

i think you didnt read properly the part i mentioned i been playing b4 since i was 1200 (below in fact)

the nc4 line is a good one  but white can avoid all of this with an earlier bb2 back. There is no drawback to it since white can hardly keep his bishop on e5 anyways , and the only difference is, you encourage the dubious rxe3 sac, which is met with kd1, qb3-qd3 and nd4.

Are you serious? The point I'm making is that you are a NM who also has good overall chess skills. Why else would you be a NM??? Look at the average Grob and Orang-Utan player and you will see what low level chess looks like. Maybe I formulated it too strict but when I'm making such statements I don't include skilled chess players that have overall good chess skills.

darkunorthodox also the fact that you are a sandbagger doesn't make anything you say trustworthy. You are breaking the TOS which makes you a POS.

Look at Grandmaster games to judge openings? Grandmasters are lame. Why don't we all just play the same openings that Leela chooses because, objectively, those give the absolute best chances of winning? I mean she's played millions of games against herself so she ought to know, right? The French? It straight up loses almost every time in every variation. The Queen's Indian? Completely busted. The King's Indian Defense? Pretty bad. The Grunfeld? Don't even think about it. Pirc? Do you have a death wish? Caro Kann? You have good drawing chances, but you'll never actually win a game.

Chess would be so much more boring if all we ever played were the "objectively best" openings. For 99.999% of the people who ever read a forum post, there are literally dozens of openings that are "sound." The standard for soundness should be that there be no theoretical refutation and that it offers good practical chances. That's all humans need.

The problem with early Bb2 retreats with Black not taking the time to attack it with ...Nc6 is a different issue!  The pin (not sac) on the e-pawn.

1.b4 e5 2.Bb2 Bxb4 3.Bxe5 Nf6 4.c4 O-O 5.Bb2 (or and other move, order does not really matter here) Re8 6.Nf3 d5 7.cxd5 Nxd5 8.e3 Nf4!

The time taken to voluntarily retreat the Bishop allows this problem.  If White cannot develop the Bishop, White cannot castle, and that is a problem for White here.  The line where Black gives up a Rook for 3 pawns to stop castling rights is dubious for Black, but here it costs Black no material at all!

well, you are ignoring the second cause of this position which is white prematurely taking on d5 allowing the knight to hop to d5 a turn too early for white's taste. instead of 7.cxd5, 7. e3 first.

so your argument is

1.X is bad player
2. X plays orangutan/grob.

ergo , X is bad player. 

Gotcha.