What does black do if white doesn't play c4 in KID?

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oozecube2

Ok, so I enjoy playing the KID, and recently I've come across a couple people taht will play something like this in the KID

 

And as black, I'm normally used to a rather slow white player, in that it takes him longer to develop with that c4, even if it makes him stronger on the queenside, and so this variation usually hurts me pretty badly. Any suggestions? Comments much appreciated
ericmittens

After Nc3 in queen-pawn openings (without c4) d5 is almost always the correct answer. So, 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3 d5! prevents white's planned e4. Most often people play 4.Bf4 and after Bg7 you have a typical Barry Attack situation, which is nothing to worry about as black.

Elubas

yeah, white having played nc3 means black can comfortably play ...d5, with no worries of too much pressure being on it. Black can then play for an eventual ...e5 and/or ...c5, fighting for the center and opening up the g7 bishop nicely.

You know, if you continue play in KID style with ...d6 etc, I think it just transposes into a classical pirc, where white develops modestly, aiming to react as well as he can to an inveitable central break by black. It's a pleasant position for white to play because he gets good chances for a slight edge but creates absolutely no weaknesses (c4 having been ommitted).

PrawnEatsPrawn

You could try 2 .... c5 aiming for a Modern Benoni, the Knight on f3 preventing  White from playing the more aggressive systems (Mikenas Attack, Taimanov Variation etc.).

PeskyGnat

There's a slightly different approach as well if you despise early ..d5 lines like me as they are quite different in character, I tend to delay ..g6 until c4 is played.  I don't like the fianchetto lines if White can play Bc4, so against an e4, d4, Nf3, Nc3 setup, I'll play into a Philidor with Be7, keeping my K-side a bit more solid.

So something like 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 3. Nc3 and I'll follow up ..Nbd7 and ..e5

dgmisal

That is the Pirc Defense vs 1. e4 - you can look up those lines, but it is a solid setup for black.

Elubas

conzipe, that's interesting, but ...Nf6 still may be the best move (so the modern also gives white more options, because unlike in a pirc in a modern black has to deal with both a KID and regular pirc, so there is more flexibility for both sides). Another idea for black is an early ...c5, trying to take advantage of the dark squares better having not developed his knight yet, but most likely it'll transpose into some type of hedgehog or benoni structure (if white goes d5).

If black plays for ...e5 and ...Ne7, white can just not play d5 and can maybe make things more open when the knight is probably better placed on f6. Sure, it's nice to be be able to play ...f5 in one go, but that's only good if white plays d5, and part of the point of the knight being on f6 is to pressure the center and get white to play d5.