What happens when in Ruy Lopez you can't play the first 3 moves as white?

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useruseruser0
Example game where the first 3 moves can't be played to follow Ruy Lopez.

What is the way to deal with it then? The main line or 3...x variations are the one that are discussed in books etc. What happens when you can't even play the first 3 moves of Ruy lopez to drive the game in Ruy Lopez line. This is a problem lot of beginners including me (I am not only beginner, I guess I am the worst player in chess.com). In any case, this question can be generalized to any opening - what happens if you can't follow atleast the basic moves to drive the game in your known opening?

notmtwain
useruseruser0 wrote:
Example game where the first 3 moves can't be played to follow Ruy Lopez.

 

What is the way to deal with it then? The main line or 3...x variations are the one that are discussed in books etc. What happens when you can't even play the first 3 moves of Ruy lopez to drive the game in Ruy Lopez line. This is a problem lot of beginners including me (I am not only beginner, I guess I am the worst player in chess.com). In any case, this question can be generalized to any opening - what happens if you can't follow atleast the basic moves to drive the game in your known opening?

You have to play something else. You don't get to just make your moves without reacting to what your opponent does.

 

If your opponent didn't play 1..e5 or 2 .. Nc6, that's good for you.  You can play 3 d4 and you have a nice big center.

Lord_Hammer

Yes, and wtf was h5?

my137thaccount
useruseruser0 wrote:
Example game where the first 3 moves can't be played to follow Ruy Lopez.

 

What is the way to deal with it then? The main line or 3...x variations are the one that are discussed in books etc. What happens when you can't even play the first 3 moves of Ruy lopez to drive the game in Ruy Lopez line. This is a problem lot of beginners including me (I am not only beginner, I guess I am the worst player in chess.com). In any case, this question can be generalized to any opening - what happens if you can't follow atleast the basic moves to drive the game in your known opening?

Forget about playing the Ruy Lopez in the first place. In fact, don't think about any opening. Just play moves that control the centre and get out your pieces. You want to ideally have pawns on e4 and d4, so you can either start with e4 and then play d4, possibly preparing with Nf3 to avoid having to get your queen out. Alternatively, you can play d4 first, and then play e4, or put a knight on c3 if your opponent is stopping you. Either way this should be the extent of beginner opening theory. Don't even think about openings like the 'Ruy Lopez' or 'King's Gambit' as you will be confused, like in this post.

kindaspongey

Most of the time, one faces a position with no knowledge of a specific move indicated in a book. One has to accept that as part of chess, and think of opening knowledge as a sometimes helpful aid. After a game, it makes sense to try to look up the moves in a book and see if it has some indication of how one might have played better in the opening.

"... For beginning players, [Discovering Chess Openings] will offer an opportunity to start out on the right foot and really get a feel for what is happening on the board. ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2006)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf

AlisonHart

The Spanish is a lovely position...a real chess treasure. But do you even want this position if your opponent offers it to you? It's beautiful, it's classical, it has historical appeal, but what is it you would want out of  - say - this position?

 

 

It's a wonderful thing to play the Spanish, but it rewards the player who is better at creating plans in an funky, closed position. If you're not even able to play d4 in the Caro Kan, it's gonna be pretty hard to find moves in the Ruy Lopez. 

Deranged

The best position for white is when we are allowed to play 2. d4

The only reason why the Ruy Lopez exists in the first place is because black prevented us from playing 2. d4 when he chose to play 1... e5

So this is what you should do:

 

danfer91

Since I don't think this has really been adequately explained. This is the Ruy Lopez, and this is the only position that leads to the variations in the Ruy Lopez.

 

If black didn't play ...e5 and ...Nc6 then it isn't a Ruy Lopez. Openings are supposed to be driven by logic, like in the Ruy as white on the 3rd move we are putting pressure on the defender of the e5 pawn. The example you posted doesn't make sense to play because white is just giving his bishop away for no reason. If you are white and open with e4, if your opponent plays a passive pawn move like c6, d6, or e6 in response then just take the center with d4. If your opponent plays 1...e5 and 2...Nc6 then you can play the Ruy.

useruseruser0

Thanks to everyone for answering. I guess I get  the point. Thanks a lot everyone. (If anybody has any suggestion regarding chess improvement in this line let me know).

Deranged
useruseruser0 wrote:

Thanks to everyone for answering. I guess I get  the point. Thanks a lot everyone. (If anybody has any suggestion regarding chess improvement in this line let me know).

My suggestion is that you learn why each move is being played, so that you know when to apply it and when not to.

I wrote up a bunch of commentary here that explains why we choose each move. Remember that with every move, we want to achieve multiple things at once: we want to develop our pieces as fast as possible, but we also want to fight for control over the centre of the board. Here is some commentary:

 

IMKeto

This is a great example of why you DO NOT study openings at the lower levels. 

useruseruser0
IMBacon wrote:

This is a great example of why you DO NOT study openings at the lower levels. 

hey I  didn't play that move exactly where bishop will be killed. But this is an example I am trying to provide you guys with. No doubt I am a bad player...but didn't play this move. 

useruseruser0
TheSultan31003 wrote:
Deranged wrote:
useruseruser0 wrote:

Thanks to everyone for answering. I guess I get  the point. Thanks a lot everyone. (If anybody has any suggestion regarding chess improvement in this line let me know).

My suggestion is that you learn why each move is being played, so that you know when to apply it and when not to.

I wrote up a bunch of commentary here that explains why we choose each move. Remember that with every move, we want to achieve multiple things at once: we want to develop our pieces as fast as possible, but we also want to fight for control over the centre of the board. Here is some commentary:

 

I'm reading a really fascinating book that does exactly what you are discussing.  It gives detailed commentary on the reasons behind the moves that we play from a master's perspective.  I really love reading the information behind the framework of opening strategy, deep in to the endgame.  It's really been a nice book thus far.  They have a few games on the Ruy Lopez.  I am going to transcribe the information in to my chessbase and I can definitely post here if anyone is interested.

 

feel free to post here. Let me know what that book is.

IMKeto
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

This is a great example of why you DO NOT study openings at the lower levels. 

hey I  didn't play that move exactly where bishop will be killed. But this is an example I am trying to provide you guys with. No doubt I am a bad player...but didn't play this move. 

Understood, and as others have said.  What is important is understanding the "why" behind the moves, and not just blindly playing the moves. 

 

IMKeto

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

useruseruser0
IMBacon wrote:

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

 

Yes i just play 10 min games. I don't know any answer to your question. I thought playing 10 min game will also improve myself. In case I am wrong...can you suggest best game to play? I don't get what kind of game is here? (There is daily which is extremely long and then there is shorter ones ...not anything in between)

stiggling

An opening is a sequence of moves (or more loosely, a pawn structure) played by both players.

There are a few "system" openings, like the London, which is a set of moves white can play while mostly ignoring what black does, but mostly named openings require both players to cooperate.

It's really a shame it took 20 posts before this was said.

IMKeto
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

 

Yes i just play 10 min games. I don't know any answer to your question. I thought playing 10 min game will also improve myself. In case I am wrong...can you suggest best game to play? I don't get what kind of game is here? (There is daily which is extremely long and then there is shorter ones ...not anything in between)

If youre serious about improving, you need to be playing games with at least 30 minutes per side.  Preferably G45, and ideally Daily Chess.  But obviously that is up to you.  Below is the check list i give people.  If you cant go through the checklist in its entirety for each move without losing on time, then you're playing to fast.

Opening Principles:

  1. Control the center squares – d4-e4-d5-e5
  2. Develop your minor pieces toward the center – piece activity is the key
  3. Castle
  4. Connect your rooks

Tactics...tactics...tactics...

The objective of development is about improving the value of your pieces by increasing the importance of their roles. Well-developed pieces have more fire-power than undeveloped pieces and they do more in helping you gain control.

Now we will look at 5 practical things you can do to help you achieve your development objective.

They are:

  1. Give priority to your least active pieces.
  • Which piece needs to be developed (which piece is the least active)
  • Where should it go (where can its role be maximized)
  1. Exchange your least active pieces for your opponent’s active pieces.
  2. Restrict the development of your opponent’s pieces.
  3. Neutralize your opponent’s best piece.
  4. Secure strong squares for your pieces.

 

Don’t help your opponent develop.

There are 2 common mistakes whereby you will simply be helping your opponent to develop:

  1. Making a weak threat that can easily be blocked
  2. Making an exchange that helps your opponent to develop a piece

 

Pre Move Checklist:

  1. Make sure all your pieces are safe.
  2. Look for forcing moves: Checks, captures, threats. You want to look at ALL forcing moves (even the bad ones) as this will force you look at, and see the entire board.
  3. If there are no forcing moves, you then want to remove any of your opponent’s pieces from your side of the board.
  4. If your opponent doesn’t have any of his pieces on your side of the board, then you want to improve the position of your least active piece.
  5. After each move by your opponent, ask yourself: "What is my opponent trying to do?"
useruseruser0
TheSultan31003 wrote:
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

 

Yes i just play 10 min games. I don't know any answer to your question. I thought playing 10 min game will also improve myself. In case I am wrong...can you suggest best game to play? I don't get what kind of game is here? (There is daily which is extremely long and then there is shorter ones ...not anything in between)

For improvement, 15/10 is the best time control. Or 30 min games. 

He made a lot of assumptions and I'm just looking to confirm. Are you actually studying chess theory? Do you have some books and are working out the problems over the board? What does your study plan look like?

Nothing much. I have one book on ruy lopez and I study that. Nothing else. I play at times. (Daily 1 hr at most). Also I do 3 tactics daily when this site allows. (Or one puzzle rush). I have a free account. So that's all. Suggest any good books or anything.

rival707

I'd suggest following opening principals, rather than actual sequence. Playing openings is like dancing with a partner, you have to adapt to how they move. The purpose of the opening is to control the center,develop your pieces, and create imbalances that you can capitalize on. You can only play Ruy Lopez, ,Sicilian, or any other opening if they happen to develop their pieces that coincide with the opening you're trying to do.