What happens when in Ruy Lopez you can't play the first 3 moves as white?

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useruseruser0
IMBacon wrote:
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

 

Yes i just play 10 min games. I don't know any answer to your question. I thought playing 10 min game will also improve myself. In case I am wrong...can you suggest best game to play? I don't get what kind of game is here? (There is daily which is extremely long and then there is shorter ones ...not anything in between)

If youre serious about improving, you need to be playing games with at least 30 minutes per side.  Preferably G45, and ideally Daily Chess.  But obviously that is up to you.  Below is the check list i give people.  If you can go through the checklist in its entirety for each move without losing on time, then youre playing to fast.

Opening Principles:

  1. Control the center squares – d4-e4-d5-e5
  2. Develop your minor pieces toward the center – piece activity is the key
  3. Castle
  4. Connect your rooks

Tactics...tactics...tactics...

The objective of development is about improving the value of your pieces by increasing the importance of their roles. Well-developed pieces have more fire-power than undeveloped pieces and they do more in helping you gain control.

Now we will look at 5 practical things you can do to help you achieve your development objective.

They are:

  1. Give priority to your least active pieces.
  • Which piece needs to be developed (which piece is the least active)
  • Where should it go (where can its role be maximized)
  1. Exchange your least active pieces for your opponent’s active pieces.
  2. Restrict the development of your opponent’s pieces.
  3. Neutralize your opponent’s best piece.
  4. Secure strong squares for your pieces.

 

Don’t help your opponent develop.

There are 2 common mistakes whereby you will simply be helping your opponent to develop:

  1. Making a weak threat that can easily be blocked
  2. Making an exchange that helps your opponent to develop a piece

 

Pre Move Checklist:

  1. Make sure all your pieces are safe.
  2. Look for forcing moves: Checks, captures, threats. You want to look at ALL forcing moves (even the bad ones) as this will force you look at, and see the entire board.
  3. If there are no forcing moves, you then want to remove any of your opponent’s pieces from your side of the board.
  4. If your opponent doesn’t have any of his pieces on your side of the board, then you want to improve the position of your least active piece.
  5. After each move by your opponent, ask yourself: "What is my opponent trying to do?"

Thanks a lot. I will try to follow. Where do you do tactics from?

IMKeto
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
useruseruser0 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

@The OP

You have been here a little over 2 weeks.  All you have played is blitz, bullet, and rapid.  Obviously you are looking to improve, or yo would have posted your question.  But let me ask you this:  How are you expecting to improve, when all you're playing is fast time controls?  Lets assume you are studying.  How do you plan on implementing what you're trying to learn into your games, when you're moving fast?

 

Yes i just play 10 min games. I don't know any answer to your question. I thought playing 10 min game will also improve myself. In case I am wrong...can you suggest best game to play? I don't get what kind of game is here? (There is daily which is extremely long and then there is shorter ones ...not anything in between)

If youre serious about improving, you need to be playing games with at least 30 minutes per side.  Preferably G45, and ideally Daily Chess.  But obviously that is up to you.  Below is the check list i give people.  If you can go through the checklist in its entirety for each move without losing on time, then youre playing to fast.

Opening Principles:

  1. Control the center squares – d4-e4-d5-e5
  2. Develop your minor pieces toward the center – piece activity is the key
  3. Castle
  4. Connect your rooks

Tactics...tactics...tactics...

The objective of development is about improving the value of your pieces by increasing the importance of their roles. Well-developed pieces have more fire-power than undeveloped pieces and they do more in helping you gain control.

Now we will look at 5 practical things you can do to help you achieve your development objective.

They are:

  1. Give priority to your least active pieces.
  • Which piece needs to be developed (which piece is the least active)
  • Where should it go (where can its role be maximized)
  1. Exchange your least active pieces for your opponent’s active pieces.
  2. Restrict the development of your opponent’s pieces.
  3. Neutralize your opponent’s best piece.
  4. Secure strong squares for your pieces.

 

Don’t help your opponent develop.

There are 2 common mistakes whereby you will simply be helping your opponent to develop:

  1. Making a weak threat that can easily be blocked
  2. Making an exchange that helps your opponent to develop a piece

 

Pre Move Checklist:

  1. Make sure all your pieces are safe.
  2. Look for forcing moves: Checks, captures, threats. You want to look at ALL forcing moves (even the bad ones) as this will force you look at, and see the entire board.
  3. If there are no forcing moves, you then want to remove any of your opponent’s pieces from your side of the board.
  4. If your opponent doesn’t have any of his pieces on your side of the board, then you want to improve the position of your least active piece.
  5. After each move by your opponent, ask yourself: "What is my opponent trying to do?"

Thanks a lot. I will try to follow. Where do you do tactics from?

For tactics, just find a good book, or website.  We are not allowed to mention competitor sites, so if you want my suggestion, send me a private message.  I would also suggest using a real board, and pieces when studying.

kindaspongey

"... for those that want to be as good as they can be, they'll have to work hard.
Play opponents who are better than you … . Learn basic endgames. Create a simple opening repertoire (understanding the moves are far more important than memorizing them). Study tactics. And pick up tons of patterns. That’s the drumbeat of success. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (December 27, 2018)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/little-things-that-help-your-game
https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-to-start-out-in-chess
https://www.chess.com/news/view/a-new-years-resolution-improve-your-chess-with-new-lessons
"... In order to maximize the benefits of [theory and practice], these two should be approached in a balanced manner. ... Play as many slow games (60 5 or preferably slower) as possible, ... The other side of improvement is theory. ... This can be reading books, taking lessons, watching videos, doing problems on software, etc. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627084053/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman19.pdf
"... If it’s instruction, you look for an author that addresses players at your level (buying something that’s too advanced won’t help you at all). This means that a classic book that is revered by many people might not be useful for you. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (2015)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-best-chess-books-ever
Here are some reading possibilities that I often mention:
Simple Attacking Plans by Fred Wilson (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708090402/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review874.pdf
http://dev.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Simple-Attacking-Plans-77p3731.htm

kindaspongey

Logical Chess: Move by Move by Irving Chernev (1957)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104437/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/logichess.pdf
The Most Instructive Games of Chess Ever Played by Irving Chernev (1965)
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/most-instructive-games-of-chess-ever-played/
Winning Chess by Irving Chernev and Fred Reinfeld (1948)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708093415/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review919.pdf
Back to Basics: Tactics by Dan Heisman (2007)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708233537/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review585.pdf
https://www.chess.com/article/view/book-review-back-to-basics-tactics
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5856bd64ff7c50433c3803db/t/5895fc0ca5790af7895297e4/1486224396755/btbtactics2excerpt.pdf
Discovering Chess Openings by GM John Emms (2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf
Openings for Amateurs by Pete Tamburro (2014)
http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2014/05/review-of-pete-tamburros-openings-for.html
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/openings-for-amateurs/
https://www.mongoosepress.com/catalog/excerpts/openings_amateurs.pdf
Chess Endgames for Kids by Karsten Müller (2015)
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/chess-endgames-for-kids/
http://www.gambitbooks.com/pdfs/Chess_Endgames_for_Kids.pdf

A Guide to Chess Improvement by Dan Heisman (2010)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708105628/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review781.pdf
Studying Chess Made Easy by Andrew Soltis (2009)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708090448/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review750.pdf
Seirawan stuff:
http://seagaard.dk/review/eng/bo_beginner/ev_winning_chess.asp?KATID=BO&ID=BO-Beginner
http://www.nystar.com/tamarkin/review1.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen173.pdf
https://www.chess.com/article/view/book-review-winning-chess-endings
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708092617/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review560.pdf

IMKeto
TheSultan31003 wrote:

This is the book I mentioned earlier:

 

Logical Chess: Move by Move by Irving Chernev (1957)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708104437/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/logichess.pdf

Excellent book!

Highly recommended.

useruseruser0
kindaspongey wrote:

"... for those that want to be as good as they can be, they'll have to work hard.
Play opponents who are better than you … . Learn basic endgames. Create a simple opening repertoire (understanding the moves are far more important than memorizing them). Study tactics. And pick up tons of patterns. That’s the drumbeat of success. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (December 27, 2018)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/little-things-that-help-your-game
https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-to-start-out-in-chess
https://www.chess.com/news/view/a-new-years-resolution-improve-your-chess-with-new-lessons
"... In order to maximize the benefits of [theory and practice], these two should be approached in a balanced manner. ... Play as many slow games (60 5 or preferably slower) as possible, ... The other side of improvement is theory. ... This can be reading books, taking lessons, watching videos, doing problems on software, etc. ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627084053/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman19.pdf
"... If it’s instruction, you look for an author that addresses players at your level (buying something that’s too advanced won’t help you at all). This means that a classic book that is revered by many people might not be useful for you. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (2015)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-best-chess-books-ever
Here are some reading possibilities that I often mention:
Simple Attacking Plans by Fred Wilson (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140708090402/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/review874.pdf
http://dev.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Simple-Attacking-Plans-77p3731.htm

Thanks for the response. I will try to follow. Thanks a lot.

alanllewellyn71
AlisonHart wrote:

The Spanish is a lovely position...a real chess treasure. But do you even want this position if your opponent offers it to you? It's beautiful, it's classical, it has historical appeal, but what is it you would want out of  - say - this position?

 

 

It's a wonderful thing to play the Spanish, but it rewards the player who is better at creating plans in an funky, closed position. If you're not even able to play d4 in the Caro Kan, it's gonna be pretty hard to find moves in the Ruy Lopez. 

the spanish is a lovely position??? is that why all top gms avoid it these days because of the dreaded Berlin Defence

IMKeto

 

useruseruser0
alanllewellyn71 wrote:
AlisonHart wrote:

The Spanish is a lovely position...a real chess treasure. But do you even want this position if your opponent offers it to you? It's beautiful, it's classical, it has historical appeal, but what is it you would want out of  - say - this position?

 

 

It's a wonderful thing to play the Spanish, but it rewards the player who is better at creating plans in an funky, closed position. If you're not even able to play d4 in the Caro Kan, it's gonna be pretty hard to find moves in the Ruy Lopez. 

the spanish is a lovely position??? is that why all top gms avoid it these days because of the dreaded Berlin Defence

Really ? Is that so? Berlin def can beat ruy always?

alanllewellyn71

saying the spanish is good wont fly, the spanish fly is good though

alanllewellyn71

no berlin defence gets a grandmaster draw nearly every time at top level, it simply transposes into a extremely even endgame straight from the opening and believe it or not even top grandmsasters got bored of drawing with it.

kindaspongey

"The most significant phenomenon of the last few years has been the Berlin Variation, putting an end to nothing less than the move 1.e4." - GM Sergey Shipov (~2013)
http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Vigorous-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-for-Black-A-76p3857.htm

(1 e4 is still being played, even the Lopez, but I think there is now a somewhat increased amount of Piano.)

IMKeto
alanllewellyn71 wrote:

no berlin defence gets a grandmaster draw nearly every time at top level, it simply transposes into a extremely even endgame straight from the opening and believe it or not even top grandmsasters got bored of drawing with it.

We arent GM's though...

Unbreakablevkv

What's ruy Lopez?

kindaspongey

 

El_Chapeau12

It is true it is quite annoying when you want to play complicated positions and start with e4 and your opponents hit you with c6 and play the main line but castle queenside;