What is the best counter for The Dutch defence? Im trying to learn some options and counter moves but it seems to all lead towards the same results.
Have you tried the Staunton Gambit?
No, I don't even know what moves those are.
Here's a link to a lot of Staunton Gambit games if you want to have a look at it. Of course, if your Dutch Defense opponent gets into the Dutch by playing something other than 1...f5, the Staunton Gambit won't be an option.
Thanks that makes sense
1: e4 refuted the dutch
Well then what do you suggest?
thats the thing though most people I play don't play the dutch defense and when they do then for me its kind of a guessing game.
The Staunton Gambit probably isn't objectively the strongest response to the Dutch but it gives good practical chances which is likely the cause of that popular belief Lakdawala was talking about.
I always loose with white against the stonewall and I hate gambits.
Isn't there another reply for white against the stonewall giving a small but decent and lasting advance ?
lol the stonewall ? good luck facing opponets who do that.
If you are fairly sure your oponent opens with the Dutch defence a very good option is 1. Nf3 2. d3 3. e4 (see the game of a very young Magnus Carlsen as an example: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1274856). The move f5 is probably unplayable against Nf3
If you do not want to guess Nf3 for the c5 answer (like me) the setup with d4/Nf3/g3 is best. Just grap your space advantage and try to force your oponent to either play e4 or play Ne4 and exchange. Then attack the e4 pawn with f3. The remaining endgames should be nice to play.
@Wiebelenstra: Against stonewall many systems work. The most accepted way is to play aim both knight towards e5 (Nb1-> d2 -> f3 and Ng1 -> f3 -> e5 ->d3) this setup gives black supposedly very little counterplay. Personally i do not like it too much though and i generally play a quick Bf4. This forces the black bischop away from the d6 square (exchanging it would give black a serious weakness on the black squared while g3xf4 might give white a worse pawn structure in theory but also strengthens his center and makes any form of counter play related to g5 or e5 impossible.
The move f5 is probably unplayable against Nf3
Why? Loads of people say this, but I've played it many times and done fine. What can go so tragically wrong?
The problem is that it is very hard for black to avoid the opening op the position with exf5 followed by d4. In the resulting position white will find nice attacking squares for his pieces while black has trouble with his king placement. In short it is no fun to play as black.
Nice, e4 in stead of d4.But I love to play d4, but hates gambits.So e4 is no escape for me.
What's the alternative ??
First of all. Against the squence 1. d4 - f5 (opposed to 1.Nf3 f5) there is no forced advantage. There might be more reliable defences but the Dutch defence is certainly playable and there is no way for white to gain a winning advantage. In almost every position black will have his/her counter changes.
My personal recomandations (but they might not be good for you !) are:
1) Against e6/d6 setups. Normal play with d4/g3/Bg2 and later finish development with b3/ba3 or b2 (some gm's like a quick b4 here btw). White has a space advantage but black does have counter chances. Shuffle your pieces around till either you can play e4 or black is forced to play e4/Ne4 that attack his advanced point (either by exchanging the knight or playing f3) Please not that his is not easy !!!
2) Against the leningrad i like to play and early d5 and exchange on e6 (after e7-e5). White will have more space and the black king is slightly draftly. Still once again black has counter chances
3) Stonewall is probably the worst setup for black. Like me and pelik explained the best way is to exchange the dark squared bischop (i like to do that by a quick Bf4) and then take control of the e4 square and keep blacks white squared bishop caged in. With all the weakness on the dark squared white is playing for 2 results.
In almost all variations of the Dutch defence black has dynamic potential to compensatie for positional defects in his/her position. Always be very careful of pawn breaks like f4 or quick attacks with Qd8 -> e8 > h5 combined with g5
@moonie, I've seen Carlsen-Dolmatov before and (I might be wrong but) I don't think the reason black lost was because of his first move.
I agree that the 1. Nf3 - f5 does not lead to a forced loss. However the resulting positions are unpleasant for black and he has to be very careful
Probably at GM level you are right... but I do fine with it at my level so I don't see any real need to change it. After all, I somehow doubt it's the only thing preventing me from becoming a GM
i like to use the staton gambit because there is an interesting trap in it