the alapin gives white too much of a passive position
what should i play vs the sicilian (now a discussion of whites side of the sicilian)
Sort:
Black can develop way faster than white in the Alapin as white essentially blocked their knight from going to c3.
You just have to take one glance to see how much better developed black is.
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
@Ilampozhil25
Don't bother trying to argue with him. He won't stop and it'll go on forever.
Yeah that's gonna happen because the opening isn't actually -9. Any time you want to say an opening is bad at least check the evaluation before you do.
lol we are humans and mindlessly going to stockfish is the stupidest thing ever
i never said its -9 for stockfish
just look at the position, and analyse it using your brain
turn off stockfish and what do you see?
white lost a queen for two pieces and has little compensation
and those 9 points on d8 can just as well go to d5 thank you
Here.
In which way is white losing? You have to avoid verbal conclusions. Tell me how many times you've ever evaluated a position without words. The knight on f7 is way better than the passive rook on h8. Also, you said the queen can go to d5? Well how about this??
Black's queen is super passive now. Whites forces are attacking. Now tell me, how in the hell does black win here?
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
@Ilampozhil25
Don't bother trying to argue with him. He won't stop and it'll go on forever.
Yeah that's gonna happen because the opening isn't actually -9. Any time you want to say an opening is bad at least check the evaluation before you do.
lol we are humans and mindlessly going to stockfish is the stupidest thing ever
i never said its -9 for stockfish
just look at the position, and analyse it using your brain
turn off stockfish and what do you see?
white lost a queen for two pieces and has little compensation
and those 9 points on d8 can just as well go to d5 thank you
What I see is a black army comepletely undeveloped. That knight and bishop were black's ONLY active pieces. Plus, a king that has moved twice. You should never move pieces more than once when developing them unless you're attacking. Did you think I was incapable of human analysis? Check this and tell me what you think.
On top of that, some of our openings actually came from Stockfish. Tell me what you think about that? If you're thinking mindlessly going to Stockfish is stupid, tell me what's the best move in this position WITHOUT stockfish if you think it's so easy?
May 15, 2023
0
#306
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
@Ilampozhil25
Don't bother trying to argue with him. He won't stop and it'll go on forever.
Yeah that's gonna happen because the opening isn't actually -9. Any time you want to say an opening is bad at least check the evaluation before you do.
lol we are humans and mindlessly going to stockfish is the stupidest thing ever
i never said its -9 for stockfish
just look at the position, and analyse it using your brain
turn off stockfish and what do you see?
white lost a queen for two pieces and has little compensation
and those 9 points on d8 can just as well go to d5 thank you
Here.
In which way is white losing? You have to avoid verbal conclusions. Tell me how many times you've ever evaluated a position without words. The knight on f7 is way better than the passive rook on h8. Also, you said the queen can go to d5? Well how about this??
Black's queen is super passive now. Whites forces are attacking. Now tell me, how in the hell does black win here?
he doesent
its literally ~+2 for white but i would guess white has to hold on to that initative the whole game or he may blunder drawing
Sea_TurtIe wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
@Ilampozhil25
Don't bother trying to argue with him. He won't stop and it'll go on forever.
Yeah that's gonna happen because the opening isn't actually -9. Any time you want to say an opening is bad at least check the evaluation before you do.
lol we are humans and mindlessly going to stockfish is the stupidest thing ever
i never said its -9 for stockfish
just look at the position, and analyse it using your brain
turn off stockfish and what do you see?
white lost a queen for two pieces and has little compensation
and those 9 points on d8 can just as well go to d5 thank you
Here.
In which way is white losing? You have to avoid verbal conclusions. Tell me how many times you've ever evaluated a position without words. The knight on f7 is way better than the passive rook on h8. Also, you said the queen can go to d5? Well how about this??
Black's queen is super passive now. Whites forces are attacking. Now tell me, how in the hell does black win here?
he doesent
its literally ~+2 for white but i would guess white has to hold on to that initative the whole game or he may blunder drawing
Yeah. More than that, if black randomly plays a natural move (Qd5 and Nd2 are examples) the evaluation just goes up by around 1-2 points.
SamuelAjedrez95 wrote:
Black can develop way faster than white in the Alapin as white essentially blocked their knight from going to c3.
You just have to take one glance to see how much better developed black is.
Try this line. It has no name.
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
You mean the Grand Prix Attack? You mean the Grand Prix Attack?
You mean this Grand Prix Attack?
this isn’t even best play btw, instead made out of very natural moves both sides would make in this opening considering its concepts
This should be called the Grand Prix Defense because white has to defend or he’s gonna lose
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
in your line, black played 4... g6. In mine, black played 4... a6. I think that's the main difference we're struggling to visualize with each other
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
oh yeah i forgor about that
wait @SamuelAjedrez95 what was the line you showed me where black just got a winning position again, it was somewhere in the other sicilian thread
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
oh yeah i forgor about that
wait @SamuelAjedrez95 what was the line you showed me where black just got a winning position again, it was somewhere in the other sicilian thread
He hasn't been here since an hour ago.
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
nvm it was from the kangaroo profile picture guy when i was defending the grand prix attack
it was this line he showed me
explain how to refute this one
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
nvm it was from the kangaroo profile picture guy when i was defending the grand prix attack
it was this line he showed me
explain how to refute this one
In this line, white played Bc4 and not Bb5 and missed an opportunity.
Also, you're supposed to play Qe1 if black castles. If black doesn't castle short, you can play Qe1 later. In this position, without analyzing, the first thing that comes to mind is axb5 and opening the a-file for the rook.
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
nvm it was from the kangaroo profile picture guy when i was defending the grand prix attack
it was this line he showed me
explain how to refute this one
In this line, white played Bc4 and not Bb5 and missed an opportunity.
Also, you're supposed to play Qe1 if black castles. If black doesn't castle short, you can play Qe1 later. In this position, without analyzing, the first thing that comes to mind is axb5 and opening the a-file for the rook.
idk bro i didnt analyze this line, but ok
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
TheSampson wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
AhmedAryan wrote:
Ilampozhil25 wrote:
hmm yes
the games where black plays the sicilian...
tbh no one plays the sicilian lol
this was meant to be more of a long term question
but yeah i was kinda thinking like that: go into the mainline but then not the main main line
what about... every other sicilian tho (not forcing a reply here, i can go into it myself if i want)
and more about the board you posted... then what would white want? some sort of kingside attack with f4 or g5 or h4 or some combination of those?
i am getting into more attack and opposite castling type stuff so i am completely fine with that suggestion, thank you
If you really want kingside attacks just do the freaking Grand Prix attack.
White is going to lock their kingside bishop outside of the pawn chain and potentially trade it for the c6 knight. Then, castle, Nf3, and when your opponent castles short, play Qe1 to use the opened diagonal, and go for an early f5. The f5 and Qe1 attacks work against only Accelerated Dragon Sicillians though.
No, it didn't follow the principles of the Grand Prix attack.
This is what it'd sort of resemble in a Grand Prix attack game. What is g3, you're supposed to lock your light-sqaured bishop out of the pawn chain.
You're supposed to play g3 if your opponent plays a6. Why? Because you have to take into account what your opponent wants to play. If they play a6, you're obviously not playing Bb5 because that hangs a bishop and you immediately lose and wonder why you still play chess after that embarrassingly stupid blunder. You can't play Bc4 because that runs into b5, gaining a tempo on your bishop and gaining space on the queenside. Your bishop has no really good square to run except its starting square which makes you feel stupid for moving your bishop in the first place.
Against a6 Sicillians you have to play a4.
Prevent b5 and go Bc4.
nvm it was from the kangaroo profile picture guy when i was defending the grand prix attack
it was this line he showed me
explain how to refute this one
In this line, white played Bc4 and not Bb5 and missed an opportunity.
Also, you're supposed to play Qe1 if black castles. If black doesn't castle short, you can play Qe1 later. In this position, without analyzing, the first thing that comes to mind is axb5 and opening the a-file for the rook.
idk bro i didnt analyze this line, but ok
Human analysis so it may be a bit innacurate aswell.
@Ilampozhil25
Don't bother trying to argue with him. He won't stop and it'll go on forever.
Yeah that's gonna happen because the opening isn't actually -9. Any time you want to say an opening is bad at least check the evaluation before you do.
lol we are humans and mindlessly going to stockfish is the stupidest thing ever
i never said its -9 for stockfish
just look at the position, and analyse it using your brain
turn off stockfish and what do you see?
white lost a queen for two pieces and has little compensation
and those 9 points on d8 can just as well go to d5 thank you