What to play against the King's Indian Defense?

Fixing_A_Hole

Unambitious and bad.  

JohnStormcrow
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:

Unambitious and bad.  

Tell it to Spassky and Kamsky.

Yaroslavl

Play the Smyslov Variation 5.Bg5 and then sit back and watch your opponents with Black figure out a way to play the thematic 8...e5. Or play the Fianchetto Variation 4.g3.

Fixing_A_Hole
JohnStormcrow wrote:
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:

Unambitious and bad.  

Tell it to Spassky and Kamsky.

Spassky played that line once in his life, and Kamsky plays unambitious openings constantly.  Just because you're a super-GM doesn't mean you can't play unambitiously.  

JohnStormcrow
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:
JohnStormcrow wrote:
Fixing_A_Hole wrote:

Unambitious and bad.  

Tell it to Spassky and Kamsky.

Spassky played that line once in his life, and Kamsky plays unambitious openings constantly.  Just because you're a super-GM doesn't mean you can't play unambitiously.  

Care to move on to "bad?"

JohnStormcrow

Actually, please don't move on to "bad."

It's not.  It's not unambitious, and it's not bad.  It superficially appears unambitious if your entire definition of ambition has to do with whether an opening uses as many early pawn thrusts as possible.

But the Spassky/London KID effectively negates black's kingside attacking chances, while maintaining the queenside push white gets as his birthright in the KID.  It's played fairly often in GM tournaments.  Unless you want to believe the world's GM's are frequent pursuers of that which they know to be inferior while pursuing their livelihood, you might want to reconsider your stance.

Fixing_A_Hole

I'll admit my use of the word "bad" was more just to be snotty, as it certainly isn't bad.  But I consider the Colle to be "bad" in the same way.  Yes that semi-London system deters black from playing mindless e5/f5/f4 attacks at the king, but if black knows what he's doing he will certainly get more queenside play than white...white doesn't get his easy queenside space advantage AND kingside safety...one or the other.  

Yaroslavl

3 hours ago · Quote · Edit · Delete · #24

Yaroslavl

Play the Smyslov Variation 5.Bg5 and then sit back and watch your opponents with Black figure out a way to play the thematic 8...e5. Or play the Fianchetto Variation 4.g3.

AssauIt

y'all realise this thread is 3 years old, right?

TheGreatOogieBoogie
Yaroslavl wrote:

Play the Smyslov Variation 5.Bg5 and then sit back and watch your opponents with Black figure out a way to play the thematic 8...e5. Or play the Fianchetto Variation 4.g3.

The fianchetto variation is great too.  Alekhine also employed the Nf3-Bf4-e3-h3 system. 

As for Bg5 it's usually not a good idea to play this before black castles kingside though honestly don't know about against the KID but is a general rule (And every rule has its exception like the Nimzo-Larsen Attack moving bishops before knights and the Botvinnik Slav which involves Bg5-h6-g5-Nxg5!) .  The Leningrad Nimzo-Indian while sound will leave white full of weaknesses at the end. 

Besides, if someone plays the KID it should be assumed that they'd know what the heck they're doing in the mainlines, so turning the position from one where opening knowledge decides into one with chess understanding is ideal at least psychologically.  Utilizing the principle of restriction saddles black with (albiet solvable) problems that he's not accustomed to solving. 

JohnStormcrow

You see the Smyslov a lot more since Yusupov recommended it as the KID of choice for those who prefer 1.d4 below expert level in his Build Up Your Chess series.

TitanCG

I like 5.f3 because you can use it against the Benoni and maybe the Benko. 

5.Bg5 is ok and I don't think you need much theory to play it at all. Akobian made some videos about it on the St. Louis chess club site.

Scottrf
Weing94 wrote:

King Indian is very easy to counter especially if you are an agressive player.


Very easy to counter, yet still played by the world's best players?

CerebralAssassin19

play the 4 pawns attack or Saemisch variations.KID players don't know what to do against these.

Frankovich73

Just play the Fianchetto Variation. White gets more play than he could every dream of and the KID players barely have a chance to attack you.

GoddessKirino

Whoa why did this thread suddenly come back to life :D?

Vendry

I use the Trompowsky attack after 1...Nf6 2. Bg5 and it is fantastic. But in the KID I like a lot the Säemish or the four pawns attack.

ColonelKnight

This post is three years old. What's that movie where Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock chat across time? Hello, Sandra, are you there?

pfren

An interesting anti- Indian (KID, Grunfeld, Benoni) system with little theory to learn:

This has lately become fashionable even at top level chess, albeit mainly at fast time controls. A Grunfeld without a knight at c3 isn't effective, while a reversed KIA/French is no plain sailing either, as white's extra tempo is really useful. Most logical is 5...c5, when white has a choice between a reversed Tarrasch a tempo up with 6.Nc3 cd4 7.ed4 d5 (about equal, but it may appeal to many if the like Tarrasch-like formations) and 6.d5, which is an odd Benoni with a pawn on e3 and the bishop shut in, but still Black's road to equality is not easy.

kiwi

Whenever I find myself playing against the queens pawn opening, more often than not the queens gambit is played, I always decline, so as black its always scary to see white build up a strong hold on the centre.  IM pfren, shows an example of building up control of the centre.