why knights before bishop's?

i am fairly new to chess, and am starting to learn openings. iwas wondering why most opening books recommend getting the knights out before the bishops.  i feel that waiting to get the bishop's out sometimes limits their mobility to the second or third rank if your opponent gets a pawn chain going. i was wondering why this principle is so widely held. please enlighten me. aloha,...ppeets

in general, general rules are not true.  However, you know that your knights are better placed in the center than they are on the edge of the board.  You don't know the best place for your bishops until a diagonal presents itself in the pawn structure.  So it makes sense to put your knights closer to the center and wait for a good square for your bishop.  This general rule can and should be broken at times. 

I think the recomment knights first because it's easier to find their best square. Usually that would be f3,f6,c6,c3 as a knight can reach 8 squares from there.

Yea, rooks are like artillery, and they are not slow moving.

its basically "do what you have to do anyways now, keep options open"

so after 1.e4 e5 you could play 2.Bc4, but do you really know where its best home is yet? thats why the favorite move (and the one that does the best job of chasing an opening advantage) is 2.Nf3, the best spot right away.

the term "knights before bishops" came in the time where pretty much all games started 1.e4 e5.

what about after 1.c4 e5 ....? often seen very soon is g3 and Bg2. this is in truth to my first quoted point. sometimes it flips which piece is the easiest and keeps the most dynamic options open.

thanks, Estragon, that makes sense, sort of like linemen leading the running backs aloha. hope we make a touchdown!!

Consider the fact that there are a few opening lines where the development of a bishop is delayed to the extreme, early middlegame, while there is no such example for Knights. Why is it advantageous to delay playing a Bishop, usually the one opposite of the side you intend to castle? In the English attack in the Sicilian, the Bf1 stays on its starting square for a long time, because White doesn't need it in the scheme of attack he's planning, and because he also anticipates a Black knight coming to c4, which will be traded without loss of tempo. In a few lines of the Ruy Lopez, the Bc1 acts like a developed piece, putting pressure on h6, where it will sacrifice itself should the opportunity presents itself. Those are just a few examples, but like everything else in chess, don't apply them too strictly. There are no strict rules in chess, like in physics, everything is relative.

thank you all. i appreciate all the suggestions. much appreciated.  aloha,...ppeets

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Heck, what do I know?

I wonder why beginners study openings...

Tip: Being able to spot basic tactics is much more helpful than knowing any opening 20 moves deep. :)

books recommend it because if you try to develop your bishops, queen, or any piece early you tend to exchange it first and besides knights are better in the center and officers attack from far way ... which are you better with using more? 

just put the archers behind the mobile cavalries

I wonder why beginners study openings...

Tip: Being able to spot basic tactics is much more helpful than knowing any opening 20 moves deep. :)

Hey, he wasn't asking whether he should use the English attack or go for Bg5 against the Najdorf, he was asking about simple opening principles, not theory.

Had to correct this lol*(c6 and f6) is what Grady meant...

Just an exception though:

In a QP Game like the Queens Gambit, don't block your c-pawn with the knight by playing Nc6. Often it goes to d7 here to control e5/c5 as well as to support the Nf6.

This may be slightly more advanced but I think even beginners should learn this one as part of opening guidelines.

In a King Pawn game (1.e4 e5) which you will face most of the time, the above is irrelevant though. And the reason you develop knights before bishops is that you often have a general idea of where to put the Knights, while it isn't always the case with bishops.

*Also note that "Knights before Bishops" doesn't mean both knights before both bishops (although theres nothing wrong with that-it happens in the 4 Knights Game which I suggest you study)-it means the KN before the KB or the QN before QB.

GTchbe, my thought exactly. i just wanna know why?i thought my description was reasonably clear , thanks,...ppeets

EDIT:  Hold on, I just got extremely confused and mixed up who was posting what, haha.  I think I figured it out though, haha.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking why about.  If it is why I posted what I did, I was just informing "tarrasch" that he is misunderstood in what you the poster are curious about, which is opening principles rather than opening theory.  If it's why knights before bishops, I think everyone here has done that pretty well.

it is generally easier to find the best square for knights. for a bishop you move a pawn and it is semi-active on a diaganol. So bishops can be active from a long distance when knights are most active near the action.

Surely white is just winning in that with accurate play though...By move 16 he's about to get mated but I think white would be ok if he didn't get too greedy and try to hold the pawn (after all-white's a piece up anyways)  with 10.g4, I think d3 or Nc3 would be better-developing another piece or preparing to do so. This is just what it looks like at a glance so I may be wrong though.

A pretty sharp line there though-shows how piece activity can trump a material advantage. Good for blitz.

You generally know the best places to develop your knights.

It is not so certain where to place your bishops in the early opening.

Also your bishops are a tiny bit stronger than your knights and if you develop them too early they might be attacked.

Also, you want to watch your pawn structure so as to refrain from making a "bad bishop".

Also, bishops are often well placed when they pin knights--so you want to delay moving your bishops until [maybe] they can pin knights.

Now we're bumping a 5 year old thread?