Why would White play the exchange varioation in the French defence?

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Chess_Player_lol

exchange variation is usually played because they do not know the other variation well, so they choose to play the very safe and symmetrical variation

EKAFC
Chuck639 wrote:

I’m going to bite on this bait, I never given a thought that the French was ambitious so why not just play the e6 Sicilian?

Problem solved.

To be fair, I do play the e6 Sicilian but mostly when I face 1.e4 e6 2.Nf3. I did it originally because the Ginger GM said so but I've come to realize that a lot of them like to play into the Exchange Variation and don't feel like playing into it. Also, it gives me a backup repertoire

 

When I say ambitious, I mean more fun openings to play and usually ambitious openings tend to be very fun. The French get fun when you get a nice counterattack against White's center where things start to open up. Of course, I've come to realize that with many openings including the ones I play, a lot of people play them in a very dull way like the Semi-Slav can be dull if they play the QGD or very fun if they play the Botvinnik or Moscow variations. Nevertheless, there are better ways to play against the French than the Exchange Variation which would be more fun to play for both sides

Erwinmk

My correspondecne game is slowly moving forward. Played one trick and yet prepared another one. It might show drawish, but indeed there are many opportunies to play very sharp!

Erwinmk

Rerteating Black's bishop to a5 in the game does not look to be bad.

Erwinmk
The game I posted at the start of this thread ended in a draw. Was 11. .. Nf5 perhaps better replaced with the Knight moving to g6? And would the exchange for the Bishop with the Knight earlier on in move 6 a better plan? 

 

Erwinmk

I found two older games by masters playing this against the move of the White knigt to a4, who ended up worse and frightened of the threat with the move to c5 for the b7-pawn. I believe my move of casteling is better. They played either Qc8 or Rb8 in answer to Na4

1cbb

because they're fatherless

1cbb

on a serious note, low elo players see an exchange and they think taking the exchange is the best way to play because they don't know any better

Erwinmk

I didn't want to exhange in move 6, because it would open up the b file for White.

1cbb

but most players don't know any better than to exchange

Erwinmk

I also think the only answer to White playing Nc5 is taking his white Bishop.

jamchaser
E
ThrillerFan
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
1e4c6_O-1 wrote:

idk if the exchange variation is good i just don't like playing any sort of advance variation of anything as either side i think its tedious so i just play the exchange

 

If you hate the Advance lines, why stoop down to the Exchange?  Why not protect the pawn instead with one of the Knight moves?  3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2.

After 3.Nc3, if Black plays 3...Bb4, the only good move is to advance the e-pawn, leading to a closed position.  But after 3.Nd2, even if Black chooses the "Closed Tarrasch" with 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7, almost always it will open back up with an early ...f6 and White is obliged to take in that line.

 

The reason I would never play the Tarrasch as White is the Open Tarrasch (3...c5) gives Black equality, but it leads to the exchange type positions you mention, but with an extra commitment by Black to an early ...c5 before e5 is played, leading to an IQP.

 

Advancing and Exchanging are NOT White's only options!

Because as I said previously there's no theory. It's just easy 

You're a complete moron if you think the Exchange has no theory!

SMH!

gik-tally

it was the ONLY variation i ever had successs with. it's been driving me nuts lately though as franco cowards are absolutely TERRIFIED to accept the monte carlo gambit, forcing me to find ANOTHER way to rip them out of their pawns and into an open game. 

the new orthoschnapp is weird.

Batman2508
ThrillerFan wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
1e4c6_O-1 wrote:

idk if the exchange variation is good i just don't like playing any sort of advance variation of anything as either side i think its tedious so i just play the exchange

 

If you hate the Advance lines, why stoop down to the Exchange?  Why not protect the pawn instead with one of the Knight moves?  3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2.

After 3.Nc3, if Black plays 3...Bb4, the only good move is to advance the e-pawn, leading to a closed position.  But after 3.Nd2, even if Black chooses the "Closed Tarrasch" with 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7, almost always it will open back up with an early ...f6 and White is obliged to take in that line.

 

The reason I would never play the Tarrasch as White is the Open Tarrasch (3...c5) gives Black equality, but it leads to the exchange type positions you mention, but with an extra commitment by Black to an early ...c5 before e5 is played, leading to an IQP.

 

Advancing and Exchanging are NOT White's only options!

Because as I said previously there's no theory. It's just easy 

You're a complete moron if you think the Exchange has no theory!

SMH!

It barely has any lol. You just need a setup.

ThrillerFan
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
1e4c6_O-1 wrote:

idk if the exchange variation is good i just don't like playing any sort of advance variation of anything as either side i think its tedious so i just play the exchange

 

If you hate the Advance lines, why stoop down to the Exchange?  Why not protect the pawn instead with one of the Knight moves?  3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2.

After 3.Nc3, if Black plays 3...Bb4, the only good move is to advance the e-pawn, leading to a closed position.  But after 3.Nd2, even if Black chooses the "Closed Tarrasch" with 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7, almost always it will open back up with an early ...f6 and White is obliged to take in that line.

 

The reason I would never play the Tarrasch as White is the Open Tarrasch (3...c5) gives Black equality, but it leads to the exchange type positions you mention, but with an extra commitment by Black to an early ...c5 before e5 is played, leading to an IQP.

 

Advancing and Exchanging are NOT White's only options!

Because as I said previously there's no theory. It's just easy 

You're a complete moron if you think the Exchange has no theory!

SMH!

It barely has any lol. You just need a setup.

Wrong again!

Even if you are trying to get the basic position of Nf3, Bd3, O-O, Bg5, c3, Qc2, what order you do it in has MAJOR consequences to it.

 

That goes for Black too!

 

For example, I do not EVER develop my Bishop to d6 unless White has done one of 2 things:

A) Moved his LSB, whether it be e2 or d3 doesn't matter, OR

B) Has committed early to c2-c3

 

If White has not done at least one of A or B, my Bishop on f8 is either undeveloped, or developed elsewhere, like b4 in some cases if White plays an early Nc3.

 

But if you do not understand the theory, you would be clueless as to when Bd3/Bd6 is good or bad.  When ...Bg4 with a White Knight on f3 is good vs premature!  When to nudge the h-pawn with an opposing White Bishop is on g5 or opposing Black Bishop is on g4 and when not to!  When to plug up e4 and when that will simply result in a weakness.  Bxc5 tricks when White advances c4-c5.  Why 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.c4 is stronger for White than 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 c5 is for Black.

 

The list goes on.  It is not limited in theory.  The fact that many lower rated players that play the French walk in with that attitude is probably a good reason why my record as Black against the exchange is astronomically high over the board!

tlay80

This is very helpful -- and thanks.

But I have a feeling the two of you aren't really that far apart on this.  (And "complete moron" seems uncalled for.)  I think reasonable people might say that what you're describing isn't really "theory" in the usual sense but rather something closer to what Batman meant by "a setup."  That was perhaps an unfornuate term, since it might suggest a one-size-fits-all approach, but I'd bet Batman knows enough about the Exchange to be aware of the ways in which one needs to be flexible.

GMs say "hardly any theory" all the time to refer to positions like this, without meaning it absolutely literally.  It's a comparative term to indicate positions that aren't crawling with long forced lines that have to be memorized.

Batman2508
ThrillerFan wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
Batman2508 wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
1e4c6_O-1 wrote:

idk if the exchange variation is good i just don't like playing any sort of advance variation of anything as either side i think its tedious so i just play the exchange

 

If you hate the Advance lines, why stoop down to the Exchange?  Why not protect the pawn instead with one of the Knight moves?  3.Nc3 or 3.Nd2.

After 3.Nc3, if Black plays 3...Bb4, the only good move is to advance the e-pawn, leading to a closed position.  But after 3.Nd2, even if Black chooses the "Closed Tarrasch" with 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7, almost always it will open back up with an early ...f6 and White is obliged to take in that line.

 

The reason I would never play the Tarrasch as White is the Open Tarrasch (3...c5) gives Black equality, but it leads to the exchange type positions you mention, but with an extra commitment by Black to an early ...c5 before e5 is played, leading to an IQP.

 

Advancing and Exchanging are NOT White's only options!

Because as I said previously there's no theory. It's just easy 

You're a complete moron if you think the Exchange has no theory!

SMH!

It barely has any lol. You just need a setup.

Wrong again!

Even if you are trying to get the basic position of Nf3, Bd3, O-O, Bg5, c3, Qc2, what order you do it in has MAJOR consequences to it.

 

That goes for Black too!

 

For example, I do not EVER develop my Bishop to d6 unless White has done one of 2 things:

A) Moved his LSB, whether it be e2 or d3 doesn't matter, OR

B) Has committed early to c2-c3

 

If White has not done at least one of A or B, my Bishop on f8 is either undeveloped, or developed elsewhere, like b4 in some cases if White plays an early Nc3.

 

But if you do not understand the theory, you would be clueless as to when Bd3/Bd6 is good or bad.  When ...Bg4 with a White Knight on f3 is good vs premature!  When to nudge the h-pawn with an opposing White Bishop is on g5 or opposing Black Bishop is on g4 and when not to!  When to plug up e4 and when that will simply result in a weakness.  Bxc5 tricks when White advances c4-c5.  Why 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.c4 is stronger for White than 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 c5 is for Black.

 

The list goes on.  It is not limited in theory.  The fact that many lower rated players that play the French walk in with that attitude is probably a good reason why my record as Black against the exchange is astronomically high over the board!

I've played the exchange french over the board and online with relatively good success.