A "Fine" Miniature

Reuben Fine seldom lost, but here he lost quickly against an amateur in a simul.

I looked on Wikipedia and tried to understand the relationship between algebraic notation and oldtimer notation...it seemed to make perfect sense. I look at this and I don't see the relationship (besides move 1). I want to learn the oldtimer notation so I can read books written with it. Can anyone explain some of these? Move one is obvious. Then I am lost.

Ok, P = Pawn, Kt = Knight.

So move 4 = KT to Queens Bishop 4 or Nc3... let me know if you need more help :P

Descriptive notation describes each move from the perspective of whoever's move it is. 

for example:

move 1.P-Q4  -White moves his Queen's pawn to the 4th square (1. d4)
move 1...Kt-KB3  -Black moves his Knight to his King's Bishop's 3rd square (1...Nf6)

move 2. P-QB4  -White moves his pawn to his Queen's Bishop's 4th square (2.c4)
move 2...P-B3 -Black moves his Bishop's pawn to the Bishop's 3rd square. (2...c6)

move 3. Kt-QB3 -White moves his Knight to his Queen's Bishop's 3rd square (3. Nc3)
move 3...P-Q4 -Black moves his pawn to his Queen;s 4th square (3...d5)

see wiki or HERE

Descriptive notation. 1.....Knight-to-King Bishop third square.

2,Pawn-to-Queen Bishop's fourth square.

The ranks are numbered 1-8 from whichever side of the board you play.

Thanks. AN is so much more compact and efficient IMO.

If you play blindfolded games you will learn to like descriptive notation. Actually I prefer descriptive blindfolded or not.

18....Rd2+ was wicked

Do you think that your penchant for DN is due to being trained that way? I wonder what the guys like Carlsen think... I wonder if they prefer AN...

Algebraic notation seems much more efficient.  Actually, it's been around since before the middle 18th century. Many countries, such as Russia and Germany, seem to have never used anything other than an algebraic notation - at least not since the beginning of the 19th century.  There have been many, many other attempts to create notations that never got too far.  Descriptive, however, has a certain beauty and I find it somewhat natural,  since, although I was raised on algebraic and had to learn descriptive later, it does reflect the way I think... I think of moving the King's pawn two spaces, and not e4.

It's like in writing systems. Ideographic and sylabic are obviously more natural, but alphabetic is much more efficient and simple.

A Fine mess he got himself into!

Algebraic notation is clearer

Interesting. I had no idea that AN had been around for that period of time.

This could be a whole article. The history, coupled with how to convert between the two. I think all serious chess players should be able to translate between each system immediately. Didn't Fischer learn rudimentary Russian in order to read the Russian chess texts?

I understand the logic behind DN. If I learned chess a couple hundred years ago with that inferior paradigm I would probably be reticent to change. Your mind becomes wired. Like learning a language at a young age perhaps.

I'm trying to teach some more, ahem, experienced players to use AN properly.

Actually while I am still more comfy in DN I can now record games easily and even do variations in my head using AN now.

When I play blindfold (yeah, right), I like to use Kieseritzky's notation:

looks weird... could you explain how it works?

Kieseritzky used this notation in the chess periodical he edited:

     The ranks are numbered 10-80 and the files 1-10. Each square has it's own number, much like the coordinates used in algebraic notation. The number is arrived at by adding the rank and the file.
So, a1= 10+1=11;  a2=20+1=21;  b1=10+2=12, etc.
This absolute notation was a far cry from the relative descriptive notation in vogue at the time.
    The pawns are denoted by lower case letters a-h, while the pieces correspond to the upper-case letters that occupy their square in the "key."
     Furthermore, X denoted "check;"  XX denotes "mate;"  hyphen (-) denotes capture.

thanks for the explanation, batgirl :)

(btw, am i the only one who thinks of something else than chess when s/he reads the french "échecs" ? xD)

Beacuse I taught you.