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Alekhine vs Botvinnik 1946.

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RogerHolly

Who would have won, if Alekhine had lived to defend his title?

blueemu

Alekhine was in pretty bad shape by then. He hadn't played in any tournaments but local Portugese or Spanish events since 1943. He was in his 50s, and not in the best of health.

I would expect Alekhine to win a short match, but Botvinnik to win any protracted contest thanks to greater stamina and staying power.

fabelhaft

”I would expect Alekhine to win a short match”

You would? This is Alekhine in 1946: 

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1013633

And this Botvinnik around the same time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_USSR_Chess_Championship

 

 

thebully99

Well what is the match format? First to 6 wins? Best of 24 games? Preparation time?

 

Alekhine would have been 53-54 and had health issues. The longer the match and the less he has to prepare, the worse it's going to be for him. I see Botvinnik winning by a +3 to +5 margin.

JamieDelarosa
thebully99 wrote:

Well what is the match format? First to 6 wins? Best of 24 games? Preparation time?

 

Alekhine would have been 53-54 and had health issues. The longer the match and the less he has to prepare, the worse it's going to be for him. I see Botvinnik winning by a +3 to +5 margin.

Not just Botvinnik, but probably any of the top-5 would have beaten Alekhine in a match.  Which is why the Soviets had Alekhine assassinated - so he wouldn't take a match out of economic neccessity.

Qindarka

Why would they assassinate him when he had already agreed a match with Botvinnik?

JamieDelarosa

The champion, not the FIDE, controlled access to the crown.  Alekhine, a raging alcoholic, could do what he wanted.

And the Russkies were not even part of the FIDE.

Qindarka

I know that, but hadn't Alekhine already formally accepted Botvinnik's challenge. 

JamieDelarosa

The day he died, Alekhine received a telegram from the BCF, acting as negotiation intermediaries, that there was an agreement in principle, but no contract, and no payment made by the challenger (under the London Rules).

Perhaps the Soviets were worried about a double cross, or a higher bidder.

Alekhine was free to still act in his own interests.

shreyasjs2008

alekhine choked on a chicken bone

Botvinnik_the_6th

Botvinnik would have easily won, no matter the length of the match. Alekhine was old, sickly and pretty drunk in 1946. Botvinnik was much younger at 35. People forget that Botvinnik was actually pretty old (for a chess player) when he did most of his winning in the 50s, young Botvinnik in the 30s and 40s is often forgotten about. We are talking about peak of his powers Botvinnik playing Alekhine. Keep in mind that Alekhine kept facing only weaker opponents for the world chess championship too, he never played Rubinstein or had a return match with Capablanca. He also never played the top young talents of the late 30s like Fine, Reshevsky, Botvinnik or Keres.

blueemu
shreyasjs2008 wrote:

alekhine choked on a chicken bone

He should have ordered his chicken from KFC, not from KGB.

mpaetz

Botvinnik's reputation has suffered because his peak years were during WWII, when there was almost no top-level international chess being played. For most of the 1940s he handily won every competition he played in. He would certainly have overwhelmed an old, sickly Alekhine.

blueemu

I'll bet Alekhine would have won a drinking contest!

pcalugaru

I'm a fan of Alekhine... but the war years were not kind to him.

Also.. there appears to be a resting on "his Loral's" as far back as 1935. Ewue beats him in 1935 (in a very close match) to become WC... The Alekhine of old returns in 1936 & 1937, & in 1937 he dominates Ewue to take back the title.

Circulating for decades, Alekhine was an alcoholic (quit the sauce to get back in form in 1936) probably during the war, started drinking again... who wouldn't.

When the war broke out he volunteered his interpreting services to the French Army (he knew several languages) France falls ... and he's stuck in Vichy France and subject to the will of the Nazi's. Anti-Semitism accusation surface after the war... The Nazis refused to let his wife join him in Spain). "When the Nazis came into power, he became influenced by them, perhaps to save his family or his own life. He wrote ant-Semitic articles. " (Chess.com)

I believe the words in bold to be true...

During the mid 1980s I lived in Berlin Germany (before the wall came down) I met a lady who told my of her father. He was a school principle, when the war went bad for Germany, he voiced his opinions of the Nazi party publicly. One day they showed up while he was at school working, & dragged him out of the school, in front of all the students ... and SHOT HIM!

Alekhine (of Russian decent no less) was a popular sports personality. (many of his Chess peers before the War where of Jewish decent) I leave it at that. 

Who in their prime was stronger?

IDK.... Alekhine & his victory over Capablanca... is the stuff of legends. Capablanca was considered to have the skill of a demigod; "Unbeaten Tournament Streak: From 1916 to 1924, Capablanca participated in various tournaments without losing a single game! His record during this period was 40 wins and 23 draws, which is an unprecedented feat. Notably, he achieved this while also becoming the world champion!" (Chess.com) 

Yet, In their WC match, Alekhine dominated Capablanca.. 6 -3 (with draws included 18.5 to 15.5)

The match is known to the average chess player as the most boring WC of all time because after game 3 they played nothing but Queen's Gambits. Alekhine won game one, (a French... and the only 1.e4 played) then they played a Queens gambit which was a draw. Game three, Capablanca wins a QID was played. 

Then.... 22 Queens Gambits in a row!!!

Why ?

The only obvious answer is.... after game 3 words where spoke to the nature of

" To prove to each other and the world who is the best Chess player ... let's agree to play a single opening... no tricks... may the strongest win."

What other explanation fits? 22 Queen's Gambits in a row?

If we look at the match with that premise ... It's on a whole different level !!!

It got personal!

Before the match... There was bad blood between the two... Due to Capablanca's stipulation on playing for the WC (to be fair ... Lasker did that to him, so he probably thought... I had to do it, so should my challenger)

Whatever the case... After the match, both despised each other for evermore...!!! (Alekhine demanded for a re-match... Capablanca meet the same requirements he himself stipulated to Alekhine... which he never was able to produce. 

Stuff of legends!!!