I'm also a teacher (music) and do run into the same problem on occasion.
It seems to be a generation thing - people these days seem to be better at making excuses than improving at a skill or trade. I don't know what to say, other than we do need a strategy.
I would support you if you chose to drop students that don't want to listen to any instruction (why should they waste their time and yours?)
I'm also a teacher (music) and do run into the same problem on occasion.
It seems to be a generation thing - people these days seem to be better at making excuses than improving at a skill or trade. I don't know what to say, other than we do need a strategy.
I would support you if you chose to drop students that don't want to listen to any instruction (why should they waste their time and yours?)
Yeah I hear ya. I hope some of my chess.com students don't think I'm talking about them! (But if you are wondering, then you probrably fall into the category!) It is just unfortunate because I definitely like sharing, but I'm not trying to help anyone if the goal is to pound their chest and be boastful. I can't stand it when GM's do it or casual players.
Yep, like SteveM said, it's us young'uns. We're a bunch of cocky jerks, but a few good whippin's oughta straighten us out. M-hm. I blame television and that hippety-hop music. (I seriously blame television, not the music.) I used to gloat something fierce when I won games in my old chess club, but after a few tournaments, and a few 0. and .5 scores, I got straightened out and started respecting my opponents for the skill they have.
well i know when i started to play, from day one(the day i learned how to move the pieces) i thought i was all bad for about 3 weeks. the reason i stopped having a huge ego was because i didn't win one game in those 3 weeks. But i learned how to lose nicely. just convince the boastful one that that isn't not over until mate, and if he speaks at all that he will give the other guy an idea of what his chess plan is. :P if that don't work point out all his flaws and kill his ego some how... sorry, that's mean hu..
im not sure about the conceited one that thinks he's better than what he really is. the one with excuses is easy, just make him expand his knowledge in chess and make him analysis every game and he will figure out the real reason why he lost and he will improve.
these are just some of my ideas... good luck
Yep, like SteveM said, it's us young'uns. We're a bunch of cocky jerks, but a few good whippin's oughta straighten us out. M-hm. I blame television and that hippety-hop music. (I seriously blame television, not the music.) I used to gloat something fierce when I won games in my old chess club, but after a few tournaments, and a few 0. and .5 scores, I got straightened out and started respecting my opponents for the skill they have.
LOL @ "Hippity Hop"
Someone said that in a movie, I can't remember though lol.
well i know when i started to play, from day one(the day i learned how to move the pieces) i thought i was all bad for about 3 weeks. the reason i stopped having a huge ego was because i didn't win one game in those 3 weeks. But i learned how to lose nicely. just convince the boastful one that that isn't not over until mate, and if he speaks at all that he will give the other guy an idea of what his chess plan is. :P if that don't work point out all his flaws and kill his ego some how... sorry, that's mean hu..
im not sure about the conceited one that thinks he's better than what he really is. the one with excuses is easy, just make him expand his knowledge in chess and make him analysis every game and he will figure out the real reason why he lost and he will improve.
these are just some of my ideas... good luck
Thanks Sandy, what happened? I thought we were gonna work together?! Oh that's right, you dumped me for the late Nakamura_Fan! :-)
Well, in the younger ones it's just lack of maturity which should pass with time (...should...) but in the older ones it's a serious character flaw that can come back to haunt them if not rectified.
This usually happens because a student wants to show quick progress for their long hours of study and practice and when they lose, they feel as if their efforts have been futile and try to reassure themselves and others that they are stronger than they appear. It's a human defence mechanism, but one that has to be overcome if one wants to achieve mastery in anything.
I had a friend who had the same problem. We were playing in the district championship which had a lot of players (about 300) where he was second seed. There were 4 rounds on the first day and we had to score atleast 3 to make it to the second day because they wanted to cut the number of players. I had scored 2.5/3 and between the games, asked my friend what my chances were of getting a good result. He arrogantly replied that I would probably not even make it past the first day because, "there are too many of us", referring to the stronger players. Well, not only did I make it to the second day, but I stood 9th in a good field. What happened to my friend? Well, he was probably in the 20s or so, I didn't really pay attention. Eventually, we became good friends and I managed to beat the arrogance out of him (somewhat) and we progressed to much stronger levels.
How do you quash it? Well, it varies on howreceptive the student is of advice and whether they have to be led by example or they can be repeatedly told to break out of it but I would suggest that you suggest to them the power of controlling emotions and observing quietly because once something works, they won't want to change it and if that works, then they're stuck with a good habit for life.
Well, in the younger ones it's just lack of maturity which should pass with time (...should...) but in the older ones it's a serious character flaw that can come back to haunt them if not rectified.
This usually happens because a student wants to show quick progress for their long hours of study and practice and when they lose, they feel as if their efforts have been futile and try to reassure themselves and others that they are stronger than they appear. It's a human defence mechanism, but one that has to be overcome if one wants to achieve mastery in anything.
I had a friend who had the same problem. We were playing in the district championship which had a lot of players (about 300) where he was second seed. There were 4 rounds on the first day and we had to score atleast 3 to make it to the second day because they wanted to cut the number of players. I had scored 2.5/3 and between the games, asked my friend what my chances were of getting a good result. He arrogantly replied that I would probably not even make it past the first day because, "there are too many of us", referring to the stronger players. Well, not only did I make it to the second day, but I stood 9th in a good field. What happened to my friend? Well, he was probably in the 20s or so, I didn't really pay attention. Eventually, we became good friends and I managed to beat the arrogance out of him (somewhat) and we progressed to much stronger levels.
How do you quash it? Well, it varies on howreceptive the student is of advice and whether they have to be led by example or they can be repeatedly told to break out of it but I would suggest that you suggest to them the power of controlling emotions and observing quietly because once something works, they won't want to change it and if that works, then they're stuck with a good habit for life.
Thanks!
"There are too many of us," made me laugh out loud. It's ashame that all of us can think of at least one player that would say something like this. lol
well i know when i started to play, from day one(the day i learned how to move the pieces) i thought i was all bad for about 3 weeks. the reason i stopped having a huge ego was because i didn't win one game in those 3 weeks. But i learned how to lose nicely. just convince the boastful one that that isn't not over until mate, and if he speaks at all that he will give the other guy an idea of what his chess plan is. :P if that don't work point out all his flaws and kill his ego some how... sorry, that's mean hu..
im not sure about the conceited one that thinks he's better than what he really is. the one with excuses is easy, just make him expand his knowledge in chess and make him analysis every game and he will figure out the real reason why he lost and he will improve.
these are just some of my ideas... good luck
Thanks Sandy, what happened? I thought we were gonna work together?! Oh that's right, you dumped me for the late Nakamura_Fan! :-)
No Pete, don't you remeber you dumped me, i wanted you but sent me to that "late Nakamura_fan". you still want to mentor me?
for the bad etiquette, just say its really awsome to be polite (and u gotta say it in a really cool way).
for the overestimate, tell him about your own experiecences.
Then you might want to teach the e4 guy trhe sicilian
well i know when i started to play, from day one(the day i learned how to move the pieces) i thought i was all bad for about 3 weeks. the reason i stopped having a huge ego was because i didn't win one game in those 3 weeks. But i learned how to lose nicely. just convince the boastful one that that isn't not over until mate, and if he speaks at all that he will give the other guy an idea of what his chess plan is. :P if that don't work point out all his flaws and kill his ego some how... sorry, that's mean hu..
im not sure about the conceited one that thinks he's better than what he really is. the one with excuses is easy, just make him expand his knowledge in chess and make him analysis every game and he will figure out the real reason why he lost and he will improve.
these are just some of my ideas... good luck
Thanks Sandy, what happened? I thought we were gonna work together?! Oh that's right, you dumped me for the late Nakamura_Fan! :-)
No Pete, don't you remeber you dumped me, i wanted you but sent me to that "late Nakamura_fan". you still want to mentor me?
Oh lol... I think that's because he was actually a titled player (and didn't tell chess.com b/c he wanted to conceal his identity). Let me clean house first (will be getting rid of some students soon) :-)
No, you cannot teach a student to stay humble.
You MAY teach that student that his/her actions are not appreciated by the group or are not allowed in your class. Allow the rest of your students to file a complaint with the TD (you), and assess penalties up to and including the loss of a game. This can happen in tournaments for disruptive behaviour, so it may be considered preparation for rated events.
This may do nothing for the student's humility, but may improve their behaviour and sportsmanlike conduct.
At running the risk of sounding like an old fart. I do have to agree with some of the other posts that it does appear to be a generation thing. I also have noticed that the younger generation does make alot more excuses, does alot more talking, and isnt anywhere near as modest or respectful. Obvilously its just a small part, but its still a bad way to be.
Even Veselin Topalov, the world's highest rated player is humble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_W3NF4CEqI
One of my friends (level 1 Kung-Fu master) said the following:Your master is the man with the candle that shows you the way but it is your duty to walk on the way he showed.
If the guy you are teaching is not responding to your advices then treat him accordingly.I had a math teacher in high school.He was a very educated and funny person.We loved him.But when someone was arrogant or said something that he didn't like then he got angry for several days,didn't joke at all and he was like a persecutor with no mercy.He made us know what is respect.
Make your students respect you and their colleagues.Disrespect may be caused by immaturity,bad raising,personality problems etc.Many people cannot be helped because this is the way they are.Just kick these people for bad behaviour.If someone doesn't give me respect I don't even talk to him/her anymore...it is simple as that.
i probably shouldn't be included in this conversation, since i'm 15, but i think the reason why more kids have personalty flaws is because of the fact that 75% of parents in america are divorced. that includes my parents, how have been fighting like little children for the past 9 years-it has totally disrupted my life, and i have had to struggle very hard not to lash out at other for my immature mother.
If they can keep it up for the rest of their life, maybe they'll be the next Bobby Fischer!
i probably shouldn't be included in this conversation, since i'm 15, but i think the reason why more kids have personalty flaws is because of the fact that 75% of parents in america are divorced. that includes my parents, how have been fighting like little children for the past 9 years-it has totally disrupted my life, and i have had to struggle very hard not to lash out at other for my immature mother.
I totally agree with you.The situation here in Romania is the same.My parents are also divorced."Life sucks...then you die."
So I'm a chess coach.
I tell all of my students to win and lose graciously.
I primarily target students under 1400 (I won't coach anyone that is within 300 rating points of me). I coach for free and I do it because I love the game. I'm used to the typical problems of students (wanting rapid improvement, not listening to your coaches opening recommendations, rivalries etc... bad habits die hard).
However, I've picked up a few students as of late with problems that I've never experienced before: Modesty.
Example, I have one student that plays over the board and starts to boast or talk loudly when he has won the game against a higher rated player (or near proximity)... I've tried telling him this is bad chess etiqutte, but he keeps repeating them same thing.
I have another student that DRASTICALLY overestimates his strength because he has drawn a higher rated player. I've beaten a FM master in blitz and one in correspondence, but that doesn't mean I am the same strength as them! Maybe it means that everyone can make mistakes! It just seems that this may be a character flaw that's bigger than chess and I'm not sure how to handle it.
Another one
There is another that blames every loss on anything but his play. A typical excuse would be, "If only I wouldn't have dropped my queen ...he was lucky," or "I just do bad against 1. e4!"
Just want to hear your feedback. I feel the students have potential, but to be honest, it makes me not want to coach them. Especially the older ones. What do you think?
Even Veselin Topalov, the world's highest rated player is humble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_W3NF4CEqI