I see this is not really allowed nor forbidden. But as most of you said, if I only do the moves that actually happen on the screen, it is fine (Which I do. I just got a new board and new pieces but no one to play with so I just do the exact moves that happen on screen to at least somehow use my new set.). I would love to hear what an official chess.com employee or similar has to say about this. #14 said that chess.com publicly said it is cheating, on the other hand #19 is also correct with saying that is not listed in the Fair Play Rules...
Is it cheating if I use a real chess board during a live game?
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silledad wrote:
@Elbow_Jobertski. Many an organization has struggled with the challenges naturally present when using online platforms for official matches and online platforms are not in any way beholden to make sure that you cannot perform actions that are popular on their platform but if used during official matches would be illegal. Ability to exercise something on an online platform does not make it honest or legal for a match...it just makes it possible to execute.
They are beholden in that having features the only purpose of which is cheating is asinine. That I can flick on a setting that shows legal moves and lets me draw arrows on the board in a rated game yet then say that doing so is illegal is, well, stupid. Drawing an inference of legality from that is far more reasonable than the converse. I'm too old to tell but I think the legal moves option may be the default now, which, well...
FIDE or USCF or whoever can have their rules and try to put them in effect in certain online tournaments. That's one thing. But if chess.com wants to consider those arrows cheating in common games, I have a pretty good idea of a way they could stop it.
At that point distinguishing between drawing arrows on the board and using a separate analysis board is pretty semantic. It would be wiser to draw the line at engine use seeing that is actually enforceable. These rating points aren't blood.
Dec 30, 2021
0
#24
JohanKjeldahl07 wrote:
If I am playing a 30 minute game, is it cheating if I have an actual chess set with me and copy the moves that are happening online? I usually make less mistakes if I play on an actual board instead of on the screen, so before I do that I wanted to make sure it is okay to do that.
Thank you in advance for your help!
No it is not cheating
Dec 30, 2021
0
#27
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
As pointed out in #19 it is cheating
It absolutely is not cheating. You can even use DGT e-boards with the site directly. What are you talking about?
The mod knows better mate.
And by the way , using a DGT board is a different thing and setting up a real board just to analyse positions you are playing on the 2d board online is a different thing altogether
Dec 30, 2021
0
#28
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
As pointed out in #19 it is cheating
It absolutely is not cheating. You can even use DGT e-boards with the site directly. What are you talking about?
The mod knows better mate.
And by the way , using a DGT board is a different thing and setting up a real board just to analyse positions you are playing on the 2d board online is a different thing altogether
YOu don't need a board to do that. Especially players at the higher levels just do that in their heads. I don't understand what you are getting at? Again he is even disadvantaging himself unless he is playing classical. I don't see the problem.
Yes i don't need to do that . But there are people who can't visualise stuff in their head and will set up a real board to analyse positions. And that's what is considered cheating . And it's not gonna be a disadvantage in 15+10 rapid
This is the same as, say, opening a chess program in another tab, turning the engine off and switching tabs to move pieces instead of calculating. Of course it's cheating. But there's no way for anyone to know you're doing that. Take that for what you will.
Dec 30, 2021
0
#30
moxnix222 wrote:
So for clarities sake since I've never even thought about this I'm not allowed to have a board on another screen and do practice moves? I find I don't have time in blitz for things like this but I always wondered why I cant do the analysis mode I have in daily in rapid. How could you even enforce this its not like they are gonna start playing engine moves just blunder slightly less I would guess. I honestly wish they just let you do the analysis mode in live games I know its less like the over board but I love how on my Nintendo switch when I play chess it colors the squares based off how many attack's you have on them and I love it.
The reason it's not allowed is because it just makes the game kinda unfair and pointless. Just think about it . You go to play in an OTB tournament , will you be allowed to use another board to make a sequence of moves that's in your head and see how the position looks at the end of the line ? No right .
However if you want to do this on online chess , you can go ahead frankly . Because I don't think so there's any way this rule can be enforced on any site to be honest .
And just a side note , you will actually hinder your chances at getting better at the game by doing this .
Dec 30, 2021
0
#31
moxnix222 wrote:
I mean I never thought about it like that I for one prefer being able to do practice moves and would prefer they just let you do it like you can in daily in live. Doesn't feel so good to think I've been unintentionally cheating. On the one hand I guess it makes sense in that it more accurately mirrors over the board play but tbh I don't care about over the board play and just wish they would let us use the analysis thing in live. Like if a rule is not enforceable it seems silly to me and they let me do it in daily chess on their own board how does that make sense? Like you say of course its cheating but it wasn't obvious to me.
Daily chess is a different thing altogether. It resembles correspondence chess from the old days in some ways . You are even allowed to consult opening databases and other resources (of course not engines) in a daily game which you certainly aren't allowed in live chess .
I think it's pretty simple. Chess.com used to say it's not allowed. Since then they have changed their position. Now they say it's allowed but obviously it can't be used for any purpose or reason other than copying the exact moves of the opponent, and your moves must be made exactly as if they were a real otb game. No more, no less.
Moderators have in the past confirmed this, so I suspect they will say basically the same thing now. It seems like Martin already answered this pretty well.
Dec 30, 2021
0
#33
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
moxnix222 wrote:
I mean I never thought about it like that I for one prefer being able to do practice moves and would prefer they just let you do it like you can in daily in live. Doesn't feel so good to think I've been unintentionally cheating. On the one hand I guess it makes sense in that it more accurately mirrors over the board play but tbh I don't care about over the board play and just wish they would let us use the analysis thing in live. Like if a rule is not enforceable it seems silly to me and they let me do it in daily chess on their own board how does that make sense? Like you say of course its cheating but it wasn't obvious to me.
Daily chess is a different thing altogether. It resembles correspondence chess from the old days in some ways . You are even allowed to consult opening databases and other resources (of course not engines) in a daily game which you certainly aren't allowed in live chess .
Thats a lame excuse. You can't cherry pick which formats you deem its ;cheating in because that comes off extremely hypocritical. And wow, this is another example of this community condoning cheating. They probably say that becau8se they know its inevitable and unstoppable. But why even concede it? Shameful. Engine use should not be allowed in any format.
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing. I don't consider it a trained and excercised skill just an ability you are born with. I don't even think it gives someone a real advantage especially in blitz and bullet, other then helping them learn the feel of OTB chess and better retaining the positions if OTB is what they aspire to. I think its actually a disadvantage.
Dude Engine use is banned in all formats . What the hell is wrong with you ?
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing.
It's the same thing to you , but the world doesn't revolve around you my friend . And yes it does make a difference. When you set up a board and make the moves before hand , you are likely to not make a mistake which otherwise you might have made had you been just visualizing the entire thing in your head
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
As pointed out in #19 it is cheating
19 merely pointed out the potential for cheating. During the period when over-the-board (OTB) play was shut down there were multiple on-line events run by major OTB organizers and such organizers stated that an outside board was against their tournaments' rules. They also required a side or rear view camera that showed the player and the screen to ensure that the players did not have any chess books, other screens (on other computers), phone apps, analysis boards, additional people aiding them, etc. Prohibiting physical boards meant that a tournament monitor did not need to keep comparing the board's position with the on-line games position to see if the use of it was being abused. So in those particular tournaments use of a physical board was deemed to be a fair play violation.
Let somebody that can speak for Chess.com give the correct information for play in general (on the site).
Dec 30, 2021
0
#35
moxnix222 wrote:
Wait you are allowed to use databases to copy moves in daily chess? See this to me feels like cheating and what i do does not but I guess its just one more reason to play blitz and abandon any longer game type.
Sorry to say . What you do is considered cheating . And daily chess is supposed to resemble correspondence chess , so no using a database isn't cheating at all .
Dec 30, 2021
0
#36
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
moxnix222 wrote:
I mean I never thought about it like that I for one prefer being able to do practice moves and would prefer they just let you do it like you can in daily in live. Doesn't feel so good to think I've been unintentionally cheating. On the one hand I guess it makes sense in that it more accurately mirrors over the board play but tbh I don't care about over the board play and just wish they would let us use the analysis thing in live. Like if a rule is not enforceable it seems silly to me and they let me do it in daily chess on their own board how does that make sense? Like you say of course its cheating but it wasn't obvious to me.
Daily chess is a different thing altogether. It resembles correspondence chess from the old days in some ways . You are even allowed to consult opening databases and other resources (of course not engines) in a daily game which you certainly aren't allowed in live chess .
Thats a lame excuse. You can't cherry pick which formats you deem its ;cheating in because that comes off extremely hypocritical. And wow, this is another example of this community condoning cheating. They probably say that becau8se they know its inevitable and unstoppable. But why even concede it? Shameful. Engine use should not be allowed in any format.
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing. I don't consider it a trained and excercised skill just an ability you are born with. I don't even think it gives someone a real advantage especially in blitz and bullet, other then helping them learn the feel of OTB chess and better retaining the positions if OTB is what they aspire to. I think its actually a disadvantage.
Dude Engine use is banned in all formats . What the hell is wrong with you ?
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing.
It's the same thing to you , but the world doesn't revolve around you my friend . And yes it does make a difference. When you set up a board and make the moves before hand , you are likely to not make a mistake which otherwise you might have made had you been just visualizing the entire thing in your head
I don't believe there is a difference at all for people who have that ability. In fact people who can do it in their mind still have the advantage because it will take less time. then someone moving pieces on a board and then trying to set them back up again. its literally impossible for short time controls. And again it comes off completely hypocritical if you think its acceptable to Daily but not for anything else. What a contradiction.
It does make a difference. No matter how many times you say it , unless you are a super GM you are almost always going to perform better by setting up a board and trying out the variations no matter how good you are at visualizing stuff .
People may do it in rapid games . It won't do much harm to their clock .
Daily chess is completely different from live chess . Both serve a different purpose . Hence there are certain rules that differ .
Dec 30, 2021
0
#37
No, if your not using an engine to suggest moves and just looking at another board to look at the board in another way it's not cheating.
(accidentaly edited out my post, lol)
I accidentally edited out my previous post instead of replying, yikes.
But picturing the board and being able to move the pieces in ones mind is something they are born with.
Picturing the board in your mind and moving pieces in your mind is called calculating.
As for daily, I don't get what you don't get. I meant exactly what I said.
Dec 30, 2021
0
#40
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
CooloutAC wrote:
Anonymous_Dragon wrote:
moxnix222 wrote:
I mean I never thought about it like that I for one prefer being able to do practice moves and would prefer they just let you do it like you can in daily in live. Doesn't feel so good to think I've been unintentionally cheating. On the one hand I guess it makes sense in that it more accurately mirrors over the board play but tbh I don't care about over the board play and just wish they would let us use the analysis thing in live. Like if a rule is not enforceable it seems silly to me and they let me do it in daily chess on their own board how does that make sense? Like you say of course its cheating but it wasn't obvious to me.
Daily chess is a different thing altogether. It resembles correspondence chess from the old days in some ways . You are even allowed to consult opening databases and other resources (of course not engines) in a daily game which you certainly aren't allowed in live chess .
Thats a lame excuse. You can't cherry pick which formats you deem its ;cheating in because that comes off extremely hypocritical. And wow, this is another example of this community condoning cheating. They probably say that becau8se they know its inevitable and unstoppable. But why even concede it? Shameful. Engine use should not be allowed in any format.
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing. I don't consider it a trained and excercised skill just an ability you are born with. I don't even think it gives someone a real advantage especially in blitz and bullet, other then helping them learn the feel of OTB chess and better retaining the positions if OTB is what they aspire to. I think its actually a disadvantage.
Dude Engine use is banned in all formats . What the hell is wrong with you ?
And again tournament players picturing the board in their mind or someone playing out positions on a real board to me are the same thing.
It's the same thing to you , but the world doesn't revolve around you my friend . And yes it does make a difference. When you set up a board and make the moves before hand , you are likely to not make a mistake which otherwise you might have made had you been just visualizing the entire thing in your head
I don't believe there is a difference at all for people who have that ability. In fact people who can do it in their mind still have the advantage because it will take less time. then someone moving pieces on a board and then trying to set them back up again. its literally impossible for short time controls. And again it comes off completely hypocritical if you think its acceptable to Daily but not for anything else. What a contradiction.
It does make a difference. No matter how many times you say it , unless you are a super GM you are almost always going to perform better by setting up a board and trying out the variations no matter how good you are at visualizing stuff .
People may do it in rapid games . It won't do much harm to their clock .
Daily chess is completely different from live chess . Both serve a different purpose . Hence there are certain rules that differ .
Only if playing classical. I mean have you even tried to do this in blitz or rapid? are you kidding me? Do you then cry you got dirty flagged? I mean i can't believe you are arguing its ok to do in daily but not in classical. There is no way you can go too many moves deep.
I don't do it and I never will . But there are people who do it in rapid . And yes there's enough time in rapid to do that . Also btw I don't cry when I get dirty flagged coz it's a part of the game . Though I may get mad for that moment , but I am not gonna hold grudges .
Yes it's okay to do it in daily chess . I would suggest you to please learn the principle differences between daily chess and live chess
nah cheating is using an engine or getting outside help
Chess. com has openly admitted using a real board is considered outside help. And thus, is not allowed. However, when called out on it they revised their position. Chess.com claims they want to promote the real chess experience as much as possible, which obviously would include using a real board. So when they realized they are contradicting themselves, they reluctantly admitted using a real board is ok to do.
I don't normally recommend dictionaries but perhaps it's time for them to buy one! How can it possibly be outside help? That seems completely incomprehensible.