Is it cheating to use youtube during games?

In Chapter 10, of the 6th edition USCF rulebook, where it talks about general Internet match/tournament play there is consideration for physical boards being used. In such an instance is is suggested an assitant TD tranfer the moves from the interface to the board but it is not forbidden to use a physical board.

It is pretty clear that one cannot use a second board to "mirror" the current position in an OTB tournament.  Anyone who disagrees is invited to try this at any official USCF tournament and observe how fast the TD throws you out for cheating.

It is less clear whether this is allowed under chess.com's rules.  Folks who argue that this is allowable analogize to use of a Monroi device in OTB chess, with the physical chess board being the equivalent to a Monroi.  However, the use of a Monroi is an exception to the general rule against using any aids to help visualize the board position, and is only allowed because the Monroi enables notation.  Use of a physical board in an online match is not necessary to enable notation (as this is done automatically by the computer) and serves not purpose than to help the player using the board to visualize (and, yes, analyze) the current game. 

If use of a physical board is allowed, then the same restrictions that applies to Monroi devices must also be imposed -- namely, the move must be made on the computer (which is the official board) before the move is made on the physical board.  Moving the piece first on the physical board would therefore result in disqualification.

+1 

If it is legal to use a physical board in live chess (I don't know the rule), I agree that the person should make their move first on the computer before moving the physical pieces.  Eariler somebody made the point that if you did it in reverse, you might easily spot a blunder before making the move that counts.  Granted, the whole thing is on the honor system anyway, but that would just make it way to easy to cheat.

Just no... There are 0 rules about using a physical board and people are just making up bullshit to sound smart when its perfectly legal to use a physical board.

Here is an interesting regulation being used by the US Chess League for their online play (http://uschessleague.com/rules.php):

"5. If a player plays with a physical board at their side and moves first on their board, that player is FORCED to make the same move on the computer that they made on the board. ..."

That play is with TDs available but does show that physical boards are allowed in online play for at least some groups (as well as the mention in the USCF rulebook).

Yes, it is possible to notice a blunder move in a physical board situation and it would be on the honor system for the player to make that move anyway on the digital board.

@jurassicmark,

“Eariler somebody made the point that if you did it in reverse, you might easily spot a blunder before making the move that counts.” 

That would be me! ;) I see how people misuse this honor system. They would make the move on the physical board or on the Mon Roi, then change their mind, stating, “Oh, that was a mistake”, as if that justifies or absolves them of what they are doing (cheating).

@martin,

“In such an instance is is suggested an assitant TD tranfer the moves from the interface to the board but it is not forbidden to use a physical board.”

That’s right, an Assistant Tournament Director (ATD) is needed to transfer the move from a monitor to a physical board so the player can respond to move made by an opponent.

This is the procedure as the TD does not play the game nor (or should not) have a vested interest in the game's result. 

But in our scenario, we have no ATD involved. Just a player and two boards. The player gets to make the move on what is essentially a practice move and can see the results on the position before he makes the move on the electronic board. There will be times in which he make a move on this practice board that he sees is actually an error. What do you think he will do? Be honorable and still make the move on the electronic board? I don’t think so. Seen it too many times.

@blasterdragon,

Just no... There are 0 rules about using a physical board and people are just making up bullshit to sound smart when its perfectly legal to use a physical board

Does that mean if an alien from Alpha Centari beams down to Earth and gives advice to player, that this should be legal as the rules do not cover an alien visit? 

I’m not making anything up here, except for the alien visit – lol! Oh, I don’t think I am smart, but I do know the rules of chess and this point, as well as the spirit of the rules, is covered in both the USCF and FIDE rule books. Anything (underline the last word) that can give a player an advantage over another player, other than his own knowledge of the game, is strictly illegal.

That is why players are not allowed to use, or even have, chess books, game scores, diagrams, cell phones, tablets, and I believe even MP3 players (they can endless repeat opening moves), are illegal. A player cannot even have a person (even, or perhaps esp., a family member) standing next to them for the same reason.

Since a second chess set can also give him (or her!) an advantage, it is illegal to use or even to have one next to the playing board. Whether a person actually uses a board to cheat is irrelevant – it is illegal to have anything that may bestow an advantage.

Whether or not you agree with the rules is up to you.

By the way blasterdragon, what rule book are you using to decide if something is legal or not? Or are you just stating what you think the rules are, or what they cover?

@Martin, 

Thanks for the update on the proposed rule change! I welcome your update!

What the hell are you talking about, the chess.com rules are pretty clear and you are the one making stuff up.

What I'm saying is that the rules do not forbid the use of a physical board. In the USCF rulebook, it also covers Internet play where there is no Assistant TD available. In such a case, if a TD is allowing Internet play with no assistant TD available, then the players should verify they are playing by USCF regulations ... that is, the honor system.

The simple fact is that prohibition of using a physical board is something that chess sites can simply not enforce and their use can never be detected. Thus, I doubt you will find hardly any site that will specifically disallow it, mainly because of that. Also, discussion to the contrary the "analysis" side of things is a weird one ... the only analysis argument that makes sense is using a physical board with the intent of making analysis moves on it. Analysing in your head is the same whether you use a physical board or an electronic one.

I've searched around a little last night and this topic has actually come up a couple of times, at least. So far I haven't found one staff member weigh in on the subject. I'll keep looking as time permits.

In this situation it is a good case of:

"It's not cheating unless you get caught."

Vybal,

You are probably, and unfortunately, right about this assessment with any type of competition, esp. those having participants with large egos.

If your not cheating, your not trying. Now I am totally joking, but there are some of you that will read it and right away start the hating so... bring it. Lol I've learned from having my own channel that haters will hate.

I think there are some people who love to hate and hate to love.

I study between games. I don't feel like I have learned anything if I have to use a computer, video, game or book during an actual game. What would be the point of playing if I have to look up something to tell me where to move? I can tell I've made progress in my studies when I can recall the correct move or strategy during an actual game without help. The interesting thing is that, if people get used to using crutches during games, what are they going to do if they have to sit across a table from someone and play chess?

Barefoot's "arguments" make no sense at all...

@Vilik_Klika 

“Barefoot's "arguments" make no sense at all...”

Sorry you feel this way Vilik. But can you elaborate on what you are saying, or is raving more of your style?

Martin Stahl wrote:

I've searched around a little last night and this topic has actually come up a couple of times, at least. So far I haven't found one staff member weigh in on the subject. I'll 

I actually heard IM Danny Rensch discuss this on one of his shows several years ago.  He pointed out that it is technically a violation of the rules to use a physical board in live games.  Of course as you pointed out it is something that is impossible to enforce.  And no I can't tell you what show when and where.  And as long as folks aren't moving the pieces around, I'm OK with it even if it is technically illegal.

If chess.com has a rule specifically against using a physical board, someone will need to point that rule out to me.  If that is done, I assure you, I have played my last game on chess.com.

I'm sure there is no rule because as Martin Stahl pointed out, it would be impossible to enforce.  I think you have plenty more games to play.

So you are saying that Danny Rensch was wrong when he said that there was a rule against it?  I've looked and cannot find a list of these types of rules here.  They exist on other servers, plus I've had staff members assure me it was fine elsewhere (especially FICS, where I've played by far the most games), but here, maybe there is a specific written rule against it.  If Danny says there is, let's see it.  But, like you, I doubt there is.  He was probably just guessing without putting any thought into it.