Just warning everyone bout a draw

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Avatar of Decridin

If your opponent is very low on time, but you have insufficient material, it's a draw if your opponent runs out of time. Pretty sure not many people know this, called a timeout vs insufficient material draw. But if u have two knights and opponent timer runs out, u still win, because u can mate the king with two knights, it just isn't forced

 

 

 

Avatar of rboa
Is this a rule that only applies online?
Avatar of Lagomorph
rboa wrote:
Is this a rule that only applies online?

Applies to any game. Long standing rule that if you do not have sufficient mating material you cannot win the game. The best you can get is a draw.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
rboa wrote:
Is this a rule that only applies online?

 

Well, yes and no!  Yes in that Time vs Material has always been there.  No in the sense of what each place constitutes as insufficient mating material: 

(NOTE:  In every example, assume Black's flag falls)

 

FIDE - Any position, no matter the material, where there is a set of legal moves that leads to mate, the side with time wins.

This is a win:

 

 

Because Black can walk his King to a8, White walks his to a6, and then Black plays Bb8, and White mates on the long diagonal.

 

But THIS is a draw!

diagram-placeholder.png

 

(Diagram won't print - White:  Kh2, Qc8, Qh3, Nc1, Nc2, Ba7, Bb7, Black:  Kf1, Qh7, Qc3)

Because here, the only legal move is for Black to take the Queen on h3 (doesn't matter which Queen he takes with), White then is in check, and the only legal move is Qxh3.  Then Black's in check again, and his only legal move is Qxh3, and White's only legal move is then to take back with the King and the position is a stalemate.

Therefore, there is NO LEGAL SEQUENCE OF MOVES where White can checkmate the Black King, and therefore, this position is a draw if either side runs out of time.

 

 

USCF - Unlike FIDE, USCF has the rule that it is a draw if there is no legal sequence of moves that leads to mate (this was added recently to match with FIDE from that perspective), but you also do not win if you have a lone King, King and Knight, King and Bishop, or King and 2 Knights and the opponent has no pawns (pieces don't matter)

 

So this is a draw:

diagram-placeholder.png

 

(Diagram won't print - White Kf2, Bc2  Black:  Kh5, Ph6, Ng7

(NOTE:  In FIDE this would be a win because the White King can move out of the way, the Black King walks to h1, the White King then comes back to f2, the Black pawn advances to h2, then the Knight toggles between f3 and g1, and while the Knight is on f3, the Bishop goes to f1, and then Black plays Ng1, and White mates with Bg2#, so this would be a win in FIDE)

 

And this is a draw:

diagram-placeholder.png

(Diagram won't print - White Kf2, Nd2, Ne3, Black Ke7, Bd6)

 

(Add a Black pawn ANYWHERE and it's a win.  FIDE this is a win.)

 

But this is a WIN:

diagram-placeholder.png

(White:  Ke6, Bh6  Black:  Kg8, Pe7, Ph7)

 

Because Black's only legal move is 1...Kh8, then White can play 2.Kf7, and then Black can only play 2...e6 or 2...e5, both of which allow 3.Bg7#.  Since the mate is 100% forced, White is given the win.

 

 

Chess.com - Here, there are no conditions for forced mate or forced draw.  The second example under FIDE is considered a win for White here, and all the rest of them are draws, irrelevant of the fact that White forces mate in the last one. 

Avatar of PerpetualPatzer123

@ThrillerFan, some of the diagrams are not loading. 

Avatar of rboa
Thriller, thanks so much for the explanation. That helps a lot.
Avatar of ThrillerFan
AunTheKnight wrote:

@ThrillerFan, some of the diagrams are not loading. 

 

Read the post - I put under them that it won't load (blame the crappy Website, not me), and put the position of each piece for the starting position.

 

Get out your board and pieces and set it up based on the notes below each diagram that doesn't load.

Avatar of PerpetualPatzer123
ThrillerFan wrote:
AunTheKnight wrote:

@ThrillerFan, some of the diagrams are not loading. 

 

Read the post - I put under them that it won't load (blame the crappy Website, not me), and put the position of each piece for the starting position.

 

Get out your board and pieces and set it up based on the notes below each diagram that doesn't load.

Thank you. You are so helpful. 

Avatar of manekapa

@ThrillerFan, you might try clicking on the edit button for your game post and then repost.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
manekapa wrote:

@ThrillerFan, you might try clicking on the edit button for your game post and then repost.

 

When I post, none of the diagrams show.  I do edit and repost, and the first one shows.  Repeating again doesn't help.  Ever since they changed interfaces, I've been unable to display more than one diagram per post, and even one requires a post, edit, and repost.