Black have winning chances?

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Avatar of Spiffe

Here's a position from a recent endgame of mine.  I was playing White, and felt that this was an easy draw.  (Which turned out to be the result.)  However, Computer Analysis thinks that Black has a -2.02 advantage at this point!  I recognize that the computer is pretty faulty when it comes to endgame analysis, but is there some resource I'm missing that gives Black chances for a win?

Avatar of Jomsup

I think black is an advantage. because black have extra pawn and bishops pair.

Stockfish 12 give -1.4 point.

Avatar of xavimaciek

Stockfisch often shows advantage in endgame even if it's draw. In my opinion it is a draw but black has 2 pawns and bishops pair so it shows like black is better

Avatar of Cupine

Ehhh, probably a draw. White will just shuffle the bishop back and forth (and the king, occasionally) and what are you gonna do? The knight stays still, if it's exchanged then it's an elementary draw. If your king wanders too far away, the g5 pawn is weak. The f5 pawn is constantly under fire. There's no way to force this through.

But you're not playing against an engine (hopefully), and there's no realistic way for black to mess it up and lose, so still worth trying. People do stupid things sometimes.

Avatar of BishopTakesH7

Wow. They asked this 11 years ago to get an answer 11 years later.

Avatar of BishopTakesH7

But it does look like white can stop the pawns pretty easily with a draw.

Avatar of korotky_trinity
Spiffe wrote:

Here's a position from a recent endgame of mine.  I was playing White, and felt that this was an easy draw.  (Which turned out to be the result.)  However, Computer Analysis thinks that Black has a -2.02 advantage at this point!  I recognize that the computer is pretty faulty when it comes to endgame analysis, but is there some resource I'm missing that gives Black chances for a win?

 

I don't know how to get victory in this position for Black.

Avatar of mpaetz

     Computer evaluations of positions come from giving numerical values to all the different positional features and possible lines. As black has an extra pawn, there are more possible losing blunders available to white, therefore the computer calls black better. The fact that if both sides play the best moves the game is hopelessly drawn is clear to humans, but it is true that there are more chances for white to lose.

Avatar of Spiffe
BishopTakesH7 wrote:

Wow. They asked this 11 years ago to get an answer 11 years later.

 

I'm still here. happy.png  It's not quite classic thread necromancy, because it's been legitimate discussion on the topic, but I do wonder how JomsupVora2020 even found the thread...

Avatar of pfren

If the computer says this is a -2.02 position, then it is drunk.

Bishop pair plus an extra pawn, but the material is too reduced to offer winning chances.

Just out of curiosity I fed this to my computer, and it shows -0.45 at quite a depth.

Black cannot win this, unless white plays something really stupid.

Avatar of mpaetz
pfren wrote:

If the computer says this is a -2.02 position, then it is drunk.

Bishop pair plus an extra pawn, but the material is too reduced to offer winning chances.

Just out of curiosity I fed this to my computer, and it shows -0.45 at quite a depth.

Black cannot win this, unless white plays something really stupid.

     This shows the improvement in computers in the 11 years since the original post. Of course we see that the position is hopelessly drawn, but the computer is correct in giving black a small advantage in that there are more stupid losing moves white can make.