Rook vs Rook+Bishop

bach_of_chess

I am about to reach this position in one of my online games here. How possible is this to win for a club level player? What kind of level would the losing side have to be in order to be able to draw this position?

TwoMove

The endgame is covered in depth in Hawkin's book "Amateur to IM". Lots of other endgame books will cover it. Basically it is a draw, unless the stronger side has an immediate tactic, or the weaker side's king has been trapped on edge of board. There are some specific positions that can be won if king is trapped on edge of board.

ghost_of_pushwood

Actually, there are quite a number of ways to go wrong, so the winning possibilities are considerable.

ghost_of_pushwood

Also, it is unlikely you're going to come across anything very "basic" about this ending, since it's one of the more complicated ones.  In fact, it took Philidor to first begin to unravel its secrets.

JamesColeman
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Also, it is unlikely you're going to come across anything very "basic" about this ending

 

Except of course, for what the OP's opponent actually did!

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/238797056

 

bach_of_chess
JamesColeman hat geschrieben:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Also, it is unlikely you're going to come across anything very "basic" about this ending

 

Except of course, for what the OP's opponent actually did!

https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/daily/238797056

 


nervous.png definitely not how I wanted to win hahaha...

drmrboss
bach_of_chess wrote:

I am about to reach this position in one of my online games here. How possible is this to win for a club level player? What kind of level would the losing side have to be in order to be able to draw this position?

To answer you question it depends on three factors,

1. your skill

2. your opponent skill and

3.  Absolute state of position.

22% of positions are forced win from KRB vs KR regardless of skill.

https://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=4kr2/8/8/8/8/8/4B3/3RK3_w_-_-_0_1

 

But 78% of position is draw if both opponents play perfectly.

 

drmrboss

From 22%, your chance will be higher if your skill is better than opponent but lesser in vice versa.

BL4D3RUNN3R

It is a decent winning possibilty. GMs lost it in times of adjourned games. I know all the drawing techniques, my friends know them - and we lose regularly.

 

Don't you think Svidler knew it all?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=qRTE7w-JaDc

TwoMove

Yes, in a blitz game horrible to try and defend. Whilst in the Hawkins book quotes Keith Arkell winning the endgame 18 times, and shows GM examples were techniques to try win and draw clearly wasn't known.

In daily games were are allowed to consult endgame manuals, were the information available is so comprehensive, should really be able to hold the draw.

tinnyc
drmrboss wrote:
bach_of_chess wrote:

I am about to reach this position in one of my online games here. How possible is this to win for a club level player? What kind of level would the losing side have to be in order to be able to draw this position?

To answer you question it depends on three factors,

1. your skill

2. your opponent skill and

3.  Absolute state of position.

22% of positions are forced win from KRB vs KR regardless of skill.

https://syzygy-tables.info/?fen=4kr2/8/8/8/8/8/4B3/3RK3_w_-_-_0_1

 

But 78% of position is draw if both opponents play perfectly.

 

 

pokemonchampion

easty

MinhQuanDo

I 100 is draw because KRB cant win KR

drmrboss
MinhQuanDo wrote:

I 100 is draw because KRB cant win KR

Depends on position , source from on 100% trustable statistics.(syzgy tablebases)

22% positions are forced win. 78% positions are forced draw!

drmrboss

For example, this is a position of frustrated win (Dispute between chess programmers vs FIDE rules)

White forced checkmate in 58 moves. It is a win if there is no 50 moves rules, a draw if 50 move rule is applied.

ghost_of_pushwood
BL4D3RUNN3R wrote:

I know all the drawing techniques, my friends know them - and we lose regularly.

 

grin.png

ElQueNadaNoSeAhoga

Was it really necessary to under promote a bishop and a rook?

Arisktotle

I'm amazed by the 22%. Could it be that they include positions where the lonely rook is en prise by random placings? The R+B+K side controls about 25 squares on average. Or is it assumed that the minority side is on move to compensate for unreal en prise situations?

gf3

vdaily.pngcdaily.pngtion

ghost_of_pushwood

all I ever wanted!