I searched extensively Fair Play rules/policies at other sites - chess 24 and ICC included. They all pretty much mimic each other. Nowhere can it be found specifically mentioning the use of a 2nd board (exception being DGT Boards). This is for good reasons. Some find those reasons difficult to comprehend. The practice lies in the realm of ethics and not one for rule making.
How many of you play games online, but have a physical board right next to you?
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What position would that be? I have never said it is specific against the rules. I have said “technically” it can be interpreted as such. No different than a couple of staff members. The practice is one of ethics - not one of rules. You just don’t get it. Thinking no written rule against it means the practice perfectly ok - hence a rule exists endorsing the practice simply is in error. Don’t believe me - how about Judit Polgar describing possible issues- post #286 The practice is OK. It’s not a perfect one. For beginners learning how to play- it adds an extra dimension, possibly not one prepared for.
A rule exists for Live play - no outside assistance of any kind is permitted. Otherwise guidelines are put forth - expected behavior of good ethical practice. Rules can not be written one way or another. Basic. The practice is undetectable and therefor any attempts at enforcement meaningless.
I came across the exact same question in a thread here on CC 4 years ago. The OP, a new player, posted a pic of his comp and a 2nd board with a game in progress. Asked a question about the practice.
To his utter surprise and shock he was informed by Martin he was using it incorrectly- completely unaware that any issues could possibly exist.
The thread lasted 5 posts and died !!
You would not believe me.
World class in one sport. Regarded at one time the very best... at least the most daring !
U.S. and State Championships won in chess and another discipline.
Active chess TD/arbitrator for many years.
Competed against former world champions in 4 sports! This is true.
Enough?
Absolutely
I do make argument when stating rules are not written specifically regarding the use of a 2nd board- one way or another. Simply relaying factual information.
The practice is an ethical one. Not one for rule making. In it’s place guidelines are suggested of expected behavior.
The practice is an ethical one. Not one for rule making. In it’s place guidelines are suggested of expected behavior.
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
No rules are posted anywhere on CC specifically regarding the use of a 2nd board. It is a personal choice - one that often can present ethical questions of practice. New players may encounter such situations- unprepared or uninformed.
I see you have come full circle. At first you said it was not allowed. Ever. Under any circumstance. Again, you deserve credit for being sensible. You said it was against the rules. But now you say it's not posted anywhere regarding the use of a second board. It looks like after 16 pages we are in full agreement. It's allowed.
What you PG seemingly fail to understand-
the practice has never been about
“allow”.
The practice is not allowed nor disallowed. It can not possibly be- one way or another. It is undectable.
TumpaiTubo wrote:
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
You would not believe me.
World class in one sport. Regarded at one time the very best... at least the most daring !
U.S. and State Championships won in chess and another discipline.
Active chess TD/arbitrator for many years.
Competed against former world champions in 4 sports! This is true.
Enough?
Where can I look up your Chess and other championships?
Yes . I knew you’d get around to asking.
Online privacy is more sacred for some than others. My identity is likely known in some circles. Less in the chess community than others. You either take my writing at face value or not. Thinking credibility rests in knowing my name is typical fare- does not change validity of statement.
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
What you PG seemingly fail to understand-
the practice has never been about
“allow”.
The practice is not allowed nor disallowed. It can not possibly be- one way or another. It is undectable.
If it's not disallowed, it's allowed. That's how rules work.
lfPatriotGames wrote:
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
What you PG seemingly fail to understand-
the practice has never been about
“allow”.
The practice is not allowed nor disallowed. It can not possibly be- one way or another. It is undectable.
If it's not disallowed, it's allowed. That's how rules work.
Sure must be a lot of rules about.
PG - it’s fine you use a 2nd board. Nobody has an iota of objection. You appear to be in need of validation- approval. None is needed. You just won’t ever see it in official writing. It’s a practice that clearly is not being abused by you.
Statements made regarding the rule of outside assistance may well be of a strict interpretation towards someone who is a repeat offender and refuses to stop. Far less strong language/conciliation may be used for the innocent and harmless offenses.
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
PG - it’s fine you use a 2nd board. Nobody has an iota of objection. You appear to be in need of validation- approval. None is needed. You just won’t ever see it in official writing. It’s a practice that clearly is not being abused by you.
Yes. This was brought up before. Approval is needed because quite a few people use a real board. So, it makes sense to make sure it's ok.
lfPatriotGames wrote:
BadBishopJones3 wrote:
PG - it’s fine you use a 2nd board. Nobody has an iota of objection. You appear to be in need of validation- approval. None is needed. You just won’t ever see it in official writing. It’s a practice that clearly is not being abused by you.
Yes. This was brought up before. Approval is needed because quite a few people use a real board. So, it makes sense to make sure it's ok.
Absolutely it is ok. (When used properly and ethically) My objection rests in promoting the practice for beginners who are uninformed of possible pitfalls plus playing rated games using one when 1st learning the game.
Live Chess
--The below are NOT ALLOWED--
- Engines - You may not use any engines to analyse ongoing games! This includes Chessmaster, Fritz, Komodo, Houdini, Stockfish, Chessbase with any active UCI engine, etc.
- Tablebases - Tablebases are chess databases that contain every possible move for endgames of up to 7 pieces. These will always lead to a win when a win is possible, and are for that reason the same as asking an engine to analyse a position. Tablebases are not allowed!
- Help from other people - You may not ask for help from another person! Do not ask anyone for advice on specific ongoing games! Do not let anyone else play on your account!
- Books, opening databases, or any outside help at all! - For Live games on Chess.com, if you are looking at anything other than the game in front of you, you shouldn’t be! Focus on your game, and play with your own mind and strength!
- Fixing game results - Arranging games, playing with multiple accounts or losing intentionally are also against the rules!
Many will argue that looking at a 2nd board is the same as looking at the screen. A valid view point - not one to be argued over. CC has said numerous times -It’s OK - IF.... Point is there exists a general rule to be used at their discretion. “outside assistance” can only be interpreted by Staff and not us. If the practice is observed and being abused - a rule exists making enforcement possible. Outside assistance of any kind covers most everything. If a choice is made to use one there are no issues, none what so ever. As long as it is practiced ethically. Innocent mistakes can easily be made. Beginners should become well educated in expected behavior and it’s proper use before playing rated games.
A 2nd board adds another dimension. Players are placed in a position to always enter the same move.... including a move that is quickly realized to hang their Queen or a resulting checkmate. Never are take-backs a permitted. Could easily prove challenging. Many longer games result in a time scramble - a 2nd board will have to be abandoned and play completed on the screen board.
No rules are posted anywhere on CC specifically regarding the use of a 2nd board. It is a personal choice - one that often can present ethical questions of practice. New players may encounter such situations- unprepared or uninformed.