Is Daily not respected?

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AvroVanquish

Daily is excellent for the busy people out there. I know some people who have started chess again because I told them that "Daily chess" also exist.

DiogenesDue
WhatABro wrote:

There's also a reason many of the top standard players are top blitz players.

Yes, and that reason is because skills translate in that direction...but not necessarily in the other.  A lot of Formula One drivers could be good at driving Go Karts pretty much right away...not so much in reverse.  

Daily players do get a boost from all the people that play it like blitz/rapid, though.  It's not meant for a hundred games at once., and if you use it as some poor man's blitz without timing out, you will be summarily punished for it whenever you meet a "real" daily/correspondence player.

Signal25

Se really interesting viewpoints and certainly difficult to argue against many of the points made. I analyse my past games, but have never used a database or in-game analysis. I know it's accepted practice; but I'm not interested in doing that; even though I may be putting myself at a disadvantage. 

Xanitrep

I don't disrespect it, but it doesn't interest me as much, because my main goal is to improve my OTB play (because it can provide official ratings, titles, etc.).

This involves sitting face-to-face with an opponent and having to play the game synchronously, without reference materials, and with a stringent time control.

To me, 15|10 rapid is the best tradeoff between training the relevant set of skills and convenient online play with quick matchmaking.

Toldsted
Xanitrep skrev:

I don't disrespect it, but it doesn't interest me as much, because my main goal is to improve my OTB play (because it can provide official ratings, titles, etc.).

This involves sitting face-to-face with an opponent and having to play the game synchronously, without reference materials, and with a stringent time control.

To me, 15|10 rapid is the best tradeoff between training the relevant set of skills and convenient online play with quick matchmaking.

That makes sense. But adding some daily games will help to improve your opening, endgame and overall chess understanding.

x-1198923638

I'm trying to play daily now because lots of people suggested I try longer games.

But it's just like playing a robot / CPU, everyone is just obviously looking up moves.  I'm min level and my opponents are doing 95+ accuracy.   What's the point?   I've got the bots already that play just the same....  and I learn nothing from them either.  =/

MisterWindUpBird
BadZen wrote:

I'm trying to play daily now because lots of people suggested I try longer games.

But it's just like playing a robot / CPU, everyone is just obviously looking up moves.  I'm min level and my opponents are doing 95+ accuracy.   What's the point? 

Yes, I do get a sense that use of explorer tools etc is increasing in Daily matches. I mean, this platform approves it, so I guess if that's in your character there's nothing to stop you. I'd say join a club that plays a lot of daily and vote chess. In club matches people seem to have a lot more integrity.

DiogenesDue
MisterWindUpBird wrote:

Yes, I do get a sense that use of explorer tools etc is increasing in Daily matches. I mean, this platform approves it, so I guess if that's in your character there's nothing to stop you. I'd say join a club that plays a lot of daily and vote chess. In club matches people seem to have a lot more integrity.

The premise that using opening explorer in daily games shows a lack of integrity is just wrong from the start.  Which is your intention, winding people up....but people who are here to post genuinely need to understand that the position you are pretending to hold here is faulty.

MisterWindUpBird
btickler wrote:
 

The premise that using opening explorer in daily games shows a lack of integrity is just wrong from the start.  Which is your intention, winding people up....but people who are here to post genuinely need to understand that the position you are pretending to hold here is faulty.

I did point out that using opening explorer in daily is approved by chess.com. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's there to use in rated games, too. I think it does indicate a lack of integrity to use in in competitive games, and personally don't believe it should even be available in rated games. I'm not winding anyone up. If you don't agree with the premise, you are entitled to your opinion. 

DiogenesDue
MisterWindUpBird wrote:

I did point out that using opening explorer in daily is approved by chess.com. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's there to use in rated games, too. I think it does indicate a lack of integrity to use in in competitive games, and personally don't believe it should even be available in rated games. I'm not winding anyone up. If you don't agree with the premise, you are entitled to your opinion. 

If you are not winding people up as your namesake implies, then you just misunderstand what Daily chess is.  What you are saying is equivalent to saying that someone who refers to a book while writing their master's thesis is "cheating".  Or that a student that uses their textbook for an open book test is being unethical.  Or that a sculptor that uses a chisel is not an artist.  Etc.

MisterWindUpBird

There's a selection of poor analogies. What I am really saying is that a student that uses borrowed ideas for personal gain without citation is unethical. Or that a student that uses a programmable calculator in a maths exam is cheating. Or that a sculptor that just copies other people's work and sells them as originals lacks integrity. Again, I thought my premise was pretty well clarified, especially as a response agreeing with the previous post saying they found it futile playing against people clearly just copying move sequences from master games in supposedly competitive rated games. I will state again that I know it's sanctioned by chess.com, and despite that, I think that's a dumb policy, except in 'correspondence' style unrated, uncompetitive games. I agree wholeheartedly with the reaction of @BadZen. It's how I feel about it too.

KevinOSh

Daily is generally not well respected by chess masters because it is very different to OTB real chess and therefore not the best way to get stronger at OTB chess.

That doesn't mean never play it, just that it is not a substitute for slow live games.

Steven-ODonoghue

No, daily is not respected, actually I actively disrespect it and the people who consider it chess.

If I meet someone in the real world and ask them how strong they are at chess, if the answer is 'my daily rating is XXXX' then I virtually lose all respect for them as a player.

I would estimate that even puzzle ratings (which are notoriously sh!t) have a stronger relationship with classical ability than daily ratings do. I'm sure someone could do some interesting research on it.

Habanababananero
MisterWindUpBird kirjoitti:

There's a selection of poor analogies. What I am really saying is that a student that uses borrowed ideas for personal gain without citation is unethical. Or that a student that uses a programmable calculator in a maths exam is cheating. Or that a sculptor that just copies other people's work and sells them as originals lacks integrity. Again, I thought my premise was pretty well clarified, especially as a response agreeing with the previous post saying they found it futile playing against people clearly just copying move sequences from master games in supposedly competitive rated games. I will state again that I know it's sanctioned by chess.com, and despite that, I think that's a dumb policy, except in 'correspondence' style unrated, uncompetitive games. I agree wholeheartedly with the reaction of @BadZen. It's how I feel about it too.

But people still copy the same openings, even if they do it out of memory. They use the same traps and the same tactics that were discovered by past masters, even if they do it wihtout the help of an analysis board.

Does it make them original artists if they copy the art of others from their memory instead of a book? Not in the slightest.

MisterWindUpBird
Habanababananero wrote:

But people still copy the same openings, even if they do it out of memory. They use the same traps and the same tactics that were discovered by past masters, even if they do it wihtout the help of an analysis board.

Does it make them original artists if they copy the art of others from their memory instead of a book? Not in the slightest.

That's a very good question, since it applies to players right up to GM level. Which raises the question of what it is to 'study' chess, and what it is to 'play' chess. I suppose my hot take is that whatever you've bothered committing to memory is legitimate. It's like a less skilful boxer beating their opponent through ring-craft and fitness, which is obtained through training. But using opening explorer in a rated game is like a boxer opening up their opponent's eyebrow with an elbow, and then winning by referee stoppage several rounds later. Sure, go get 'em champ...

Habanababananero
MisterWindUpBird kirjoitti:
Habanababananero wrote:

But people still copy the same openings, even if they do it out of memory. They use the same traps and the same tactics that were discovered by past masters, even if they do it wihtout the help of an analysis board.

Does it make them original artists if they copy the art of others from their memory instead of a book? Not in the slightest.

That's a very good question, since it applies to players right up to GM level. Which raises the question of what it is to 'study' chess, and what it is to 'play' chess. I suppose my hot take is that whatever you've bothered committing to memory is legitimate. It's like a less skilful boxer beating their opponent through ring-craft and fitness, which is obtained through training. But using opening explorer in a rated game is like a boxer opening up their opponent's eyebrow with an elbow, and then winning by referee stoppage several rounds later. Sure, go get 'em champ...

I play daily as well as rapid. Lately more daily due to having a hard time finding enough time for a complete rapid game since I like the longer time controls.

I respect both. And I respect blitz.

Now in daily, I do use the opening database and I do use the analysis board. Both are provided in the game here on chess.com. Both are allowed in daily.

I also do expect my opponent to do the same.

There is nothing wrong with it and I also learn at the same time for future live games and OTB games.

Now, using an engine would be cheating. So I do not do that and I do not expect my opponent to do it either. Sometimes they apparently do since I was rewarded some rating points for losing to someone who broke the rules of fair play. It does not seem like a big problem though and the vast majority of people seem to play fairly.

Now almost all the games I have won in daily, I have won due to a tactic I found or in the endgame when we were out of books and databases already.

I have gotten to play some book traps in the games, but most of those I would have remembered without a book or opening database anyway.

Daily is not a mode where people play through master games from start to finish. Not at all. At least not the games I have played.

I really do not care, if you respect it or not, but just wanted to point this out.

dfgh123
MisterWindUpBird wrote: It's like a less skilful boxer beating their opponent through ring-craft and fitness, which is obtained through training. But using opening explorer in a rated game is like a boxer opening up their opponent's eyebrow with an elbow, and then winning by referee stoppage several rounds later. Sure, go get 'em champ...

It's like using a walk-through with screenshots to complete a computer game it helps but you still have to duck the flying gargoyles half way through and jump on the small platform and avoid the spike pit on the last level by yourself

Habanababananero

If we are going to go with these boxing analogies, I would say daily is more like ultimate fighting, and both players are allowed to have knives.

The thing is, the opponent is allowed the same resourses.

Sure, it is easier to play better chess in daily, but it is also easier for the opponent to play better chess, so it is not any easier to win.

toxic_internet
pinkblueecho wrote:

“I wonder if it´s because of the fact that it´s easier to cheat with the longer time controls.”

 

I have wondered about that, also.  I have played Rapid, 15/10, and 30 minute, and the latter two were the hardest to play overall.  My opponents made few to no mistakes, while I continued making plenty.  Nevertheless, I believe that *I* remain the problem that needs to be fixed.  Time will tell, I guess…

toxic_internet
BadZen wrote:

I'm trying to play daily now because lots of people suggested I try longer games.

But it's just like playing a robot / CPU, everyone is just obviously looking up moves.  I'm min level and my opponents are doing 95+ accuracy.   What's the point?   I've got the bots already that play just the same....  and I learn nothing from them either.  =/

 

I am having similar experiences, friend.