6 masters who proved that chess kills your brain and your life - YOU ARE WARNED

Sort:
badger_song

And now,another word from our OP....

 

nimzomalaysian
GnrfFrtzl wrote:
nimzomalaysian wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

And neither of them went mentally ill because of chess, mate.

Tal, Steinitz, Fischer, Alekhine. That's four.

You say most champions were mentally ill or addicts. That's just four out of sixteen.
The rest seems completely normal, aren't they. So where are we again?

You wouldn't be talking like this if you knew about statistics.

Look, mental illness is not a very common illness like blood pressure or diabetes. It is a very rare condition that affects 1 in a 100 or so, and if you're seeing 4 of you 13 world champions exhibiting that then it certainly means something. Then again, you can choose to ignore these facts completely and state your own argument that chess and mental illness has no correlation whatsoever. I'll leave it to you.

Let me quote you, my friend:
"Ok, how many world champions has chess seen so far and among them how many are/were drug addicts or chain smokers or are/were mentally ill?

Excluding the world champions since 2006 because they are still pretty young, the number is 13. Among which clearly 6 match the description (I migh have missed a couple more players), so that's nealy 50%. Isn't that a pretty big percentage?"

 

You're switching your points each time they're challenged.
So is it 50% or 4 out of 16? Because that's 25%.

Don't call me your friend because I'm not, and I'm not switching my points each time they're challenged. 3 were mentally ill out of 13, not 16. You added Tal's name so I added that to the count which became 4/13. There are 2 more masters that I mentioned in my first post who were not mentally ill but definitely drug or smoking addicts, so that's 6/13 which is close to 50%. 

nimzomalaysian
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

But there isn't even a strong correlation.
The number of mentally ill/drug addicts/alcoholic is completely the same in all fields.

For every insane chess champion, there are 10 who are completely normal.
For every drug addict musician, there are 50 who live completely clean.
For every alcoholic, there are 100 that would never touch a beer.

 

There are only about 1400 chess grandmaster in the whole world. Are they all insane, or drug addicts, or mad geniuses? Of course not. Most of them are completely normal, average guys, who enjoy watching TV or reading a book every now and then, and lead completely normal personal lives with wifes and kids.

I know it seems so romantic and mystical that geniuses must be completely insane, but it's simply not true.

There is a few nutcase every generation, but they're the exception, not the rule.

Let's not look at the 1400+ ~2500 rated grandmasters. Look at the ones who dedicated their life to chess spending more than 10 hours with it daily, the masters who created the immortal games which masters to this day consider masterpieces of the game, masters who were world champions.

A huge percentage of those world champions have ended their life in tradegy (yes ~ 50% is a very huge number), facts don't life.

GnrfFrtzl
nimzomalaysian wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

But there isn't even a strong correlation.
The number of mentally ill/drug addicts/alcoholic is completely the same in all fields.

For every insane chess champion, there are 10 who are completely normal.
For every drug addict musician, there are 50 who live completely clean.
For every alcoholic, there are 100 that would never touch a beer.

 

There are only about 1400 chess grandmaster in the whole world. Are they all insane, or drug addicts, or mad geniuses? Of course not. Most of them are completely normal, average guys, who enjoy watching TV or reading a book every now and then, and lead completely normal personal lives with wifes and kids.

I know it seems so romantic and mystical that geniuses must be completely insane, but it's simply not true.

There is a few nutcase every generation, but they're the exception, not the rule.

Let's not look at the 1400+ ~2500 rated grandmasters. Look at the ones who dedicated their life to chess spending more than 10 hours with it daily, the masters who created the immortal games which masters to this day consider masterpieces of the game, masters who were world champions.

A huge percentage of those world champions have ended their life in tradegy (yes ~ 50% is a very huge number), facts don't life.

That's just vague as all hell.

If you say "facts don't lie", then present those facts as well.

GnrfFrtzl

Just out of curiousity, I've checked the short biographies of all chess champions, and except for the above mentioned 4, all of them lived pretty average lives.

nimzomalaysian
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

Just out of curiousity, I've checked the short biographies of all chess champions, and except for the above mentioned 4, all of them lived pretty average lives.

Really? Bobby Fisher led a normal life according to you?

Pulpofeira

Alekhine was one of the four mentioned above, coño.

nimzomalaysian

Changed it to Fisher.

GnrfFrtzl
nimzomalaysian wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

Just out of curiousity, I've checked the short biographies of all chess champions, and except for the above mentioned 4, all of them lived pretty average lives.

Really? Bobby Fisher led a normal life according to you?

Fischer, Tal, Steinitz, Alekhine.
Except for these four, I haven't found anything out of the ordinary.
So where are those you talk about exactly?

nimzomalaysian
GnrfFrtzl wrote:
nimzomalaysian wrote:
GnrfFrtzl wrote:

Just out of curiousity, I've checked the short biographies of all chess champions, and except for the above mentioned 4, all of them lived pretty average lives.

Really? Bobby Fisher led a normal life according to you?

Fischer, Tal, Steinitz, Alekhine.
Except for these four, I haven't found anything out of the ordinary.
So where are those you talk about exactly?

Ok, go through this article -Victim of His Own Success: The Tragedy of Bobby Fischer

nimzomalaysian

This article - 

The Madness of Bobby Fischer and Paul Morphy: Can chess make you crazy?

describes in depth the craziness of Bobby Fisher and Paul Morphy and what chess can do to your mind.

Esteban_Garcia
OK. We've been warned. Thank you so very much and good riddance.
nimzomalaysian
Esteban_Garcia wrote:
OK. We've been warned. Thank you so very much and good riddance.

Thank you and bye.

GnrfFrtzl

I said EXCEPT Fischer, Steinitz, Tal, Alekhine. Why are you posting me links about Fischer? I know him just as well as the next guy. You said that half of them are mentally ill or addicts, but only four of them were. I'd say that's not enought to draw conclusions about the destruction chess causes.

nimzomalaysian

What about Morphy?

wickiwacky

Correlation is not causation. Its not that chess made people go mad but rather these people had extraordinary brains that were liable to go over the edge. Without chess it just would have been something else like maths or crossword puzzles or something.

nimzomalaysian
wickiwacky wrote:

Correlation is not causation. Its not that chess made people go mad but rather these people had extraordinary brains that were liable to go over the edge. Without chess it just would have been something else like maths or crossword puzzles or something.

That's definitely one possibility. But it's just that, a possibility.

GnrfFrtzl

nimzomalaysian wrote:

What about Morphy?

There are so many legends and anecdotes about him that we can't even know anything for certain. There werr rumours of games changed after his death and things like that. He is like the Ian Curtis of chess. I'm sure he was an average, well mannered person who had a thing for weird habits. I also talk to myself loudly at home while walking in circles. Doesn't make me insane.

lba_4
Knightismight wrote:

Going to extremes has its costs be it business, sports, arts, or sciences. The idea is to strike right balance and not get carried away and become obsessed. Most players you mentioned had poor health because they did not pay attention to other necessities of life. So it is not playing a lot of chess but rather neglecting a lot of other necessary things in life that does the damage. Gary Kasparov is a glaring example who shatters your weak argument. This man is strong both mentally and physically because he chooses to remain attached with real world. One need not be a chess grandmaster to lose touch of reality, there are good number of mathematicians who go crazy. And their greater number of ordinary guys who go crazy. It is not maths, or chess, or anything else but it is their choice of becoming obsessed with a particular thing and igonore other things necessary for survival is what is responsible. Ultimately it is the person. 

Well said. This is pretty much the view any sensible should have on this matter. I don't think there's really any more to say on the topic after this.

P_S_S_23
nimzomalaysian wrote:
pranavswami wrote:

Those are only 6 chessplayers. Think about all the other thousands that had a good career and life? All sports have players that have been killed by things like this. Your point is clearly not backed with enough evidence. Think about it are any people in the top 10 today like that?

If you look closely, you'll find hundreds of cases where a chess master's life has ended in tradegy, I've only considered the 6 most famous players who were all world champions.

The top 10 of today are all very young, still in their 20s. It takes time for chess to deteriorate a person's mental health by modifying the neural paths. Magnus has already started to show some signs, look at his interviews, he struggles to make complete sentences when he speaks. It's just a matter of time before he turns into the next Fisher. Kramnik is a chain smoker, he was also involved in the toiletgate scandal where it was alleged that he used a computer in the toilet. 

If you want to count all those hundreds of players think about every single other sport. Almost every sport has cases like these. Hundreds of millions of people have played chess. There are still many that have not been corrupted. So what about Anand? He is in his 30s to 40s and he is a clean player. And your point about Magnus is wrong. He is not struggling to complete sentences. First he is from Norway so he just has that sort of accent. Most proffesional players struggle to complete sentences considering all the people watching the and all the people that will watch them on the internet and how easily they can be critisized if their interviews are not perfect. If you had all  those people watching you could you give a perfect interview?