"Paradoxical conceptual gestures" aka trash.
"But it reflects the dynamic nature of art today and the idea that the creative process that goes into a work of art is the most important thing - the work itself can be made of anything and can take any form." - BBC
Memes made by 12 year olds on the internet today involve more creative process and also express more... and are probably appreciated by a greater number of people too.
One thing's for sure... that work is not "ahead of pieces by Picasso and Matisse"!
Memes made by 12 year olds on the internet today involve more creative process and also express more... and are probably appreciated by a greater number of people too.
Although that last part should not be a criterion in evaluating art.
Personally I know too little about Duchamp and understand too little of his art to be either a fan or critic.
Although based on personal preference alone, I can say that, like most people, I don't like his urinal photograph as much as I like the work of some other artists.
Memes made by 12 year olds on the internet today involve more creative process and also express more... and are probably appreciated by a greater number of people too.
Although that last part should not be a criterion in evaluating art.
Personally I know too little about Duchamp and understand too little of his art to be either a fan or critic.
Yeah, threw that in at the end as a jab.
Actually, now that I re-read it, it seems a moronic statement: "the creative process itself is the most important thing." It seems to me that the ideas / emotions communicated to others through the piece is what makes it art in the first place.
Ok, so that (IMO ridiculous) statement aside, I suppose what Duchamp's Fountain communicates is the creative process itself? That's interesting. In that way I can almost see it as actual art.
Unfortunately the process communicated here seems particularly uninspired. Maybe for its time it measured something above uninteresting.
One thing's for sure... that work is not "ahead of pieces by Picasso and Matisse"!
Pardon my naval slang, but does not a urinal belong in a head?
I guess his point was like you said to communicate the creative process -- you see changes in the urinal that he made with his own judgment and vision to exemplify the process of changing something into your own creation.
Still, there are a lot of ways you can do that, and his work is certainly not the first one to emphasize "the process." I don't think it's that amazing. And heaven forbid I want something that takes a little technical skill -- but "art experts" will probably hate me for that :)
This thread. Now I totally want to see a women piss on a chess board. 
Jamie : an addition to your post 26 : I quote from The Oxford Companion To Chess : "In 1883, 'after 20 years as a foreigner' in England, Steintiz emigrated to the United States and eventually took American nationality".
I quote from The Even More Complete Chess Addict : "Chess Champion Paul Morphy, USA, 1858-1859; Wilhelm Steinitz, Bohemia/USA, 1866-1886; and Official World Champion Wilhelm Steinitz, Bohemia/USA, 1886-1894.
In my opinion both books are reliable, so "American Nationality" is true.
About Duchamp I quote from The Oxford Companion To Chess : " Of his marriage in 1927 Man Ray writes : ' Duchamp spent most of the one week they lived together studying chess problems, and his bride (Lydie, RG), in desperate retaliation, got up one night when he was asleep and glued the chess pieces to the board. They were divorced three months later'.
" The opening of the Candidates' Quarter Finals Match in 1991 was attended by Duchamp's widow, Teeny, and John Cage, the musician who wrote 4'33", which consists of four minutes and thirty-three seconds of absolute silence. The draw for colours was surreal. It was made by selecting black and white urinals. "
Let me start another trifle (singular for trivia) : There are a lot of unknown interests of leading chess players, e.g. Max Euwe was a boxer, to name just one now.
I think I can find a dozen or more, let others start here with what they know ! " To be continued "...
About Duchamp I quote from The Oxford Companion To Chess : " Of his marriage in 1927 Man Ray writes : ' Duchamp spent most of the one week they lived together studying chess problems, and his bride (Lydie, RG), in desperate retaliation, got up one night when he was asleep and glued the chess pieces to the board. They were divorced three months later'.
The staged Babitz photo in part harkens back to this event. Duchamp claimed he wasn't particularly affected by the divorce but I don't buy it. If you notice, Duchamp in the photo, although sitting directly across from a naked (i.e. seductive) woman, is totally focused on the game, ignoring the lady, completely reminiscent of his relationship with his first wife.
All about Chess and the Surrealists (with a heavy dose of Duchamp and the Dadaists).
Jamie : an addition to your post 26 : I quote from The Oxford Companion To Chess : "In 1883, 'after 20 years as a foreigner' in England, Steintiz emigrated to the United States and eventually took American nationality".
I quote from The Even More Complete Chess Addict : "Chess Champion Paul Morphy, USA, 1858-1859; Wilhelm Steinitz, Bohemia/USA, 1866-1886; and Official World Champion Wilhelm Steinitz, Bohemia/USA, 1886-1894.
In my opinion both books are reliable, so "American Nationality" is true.
Thank you for adding that information. I did not want to open a can of worms with the jus sanguinis versus jus soli definitions of citizenship. So I worded the post carefully. It can be touchy.
In my short time here, I have come to appreciate Batgirl's literary contributions to the site - a girl after my own heart. ;^)
That photo on post 5 I do find pretty interesting though, how nonchalant they are in a situation where, obviously, you wouldn't expect it. Not sure what it's supposed to represent -- maybe he's saying something about himself, or the woman is trying to show that she is who she is whether she has clothes on or not, that there is no need for her to feel embarrased or submit to him just because her clothes are off.
Nicolas Rossolimo, born in 1910, was of Greek and Russian ethnicity. He left the Ukraine in 1929 to live with his mother in France. He eventually immigrated to the United States in 1952. He was among the first class of Grandmasters awarded the title by FIDE in 1950.
While in the US, he ran a chess studio in New York City, where Marcel Duchamp often played. Though he was a chess professional, Rossolimo drove a taxi, and worked as a waiter, singer, and accordionist to support his family.
He was well suited to be a cabbie, as his prize for winning the 1955 US Open was a Buick.
This is reportedly the oldest surviving recorded game of chess. The game was played in Valenica, part of modern-day Spain, then under the Crown of Aragon.
This is reportedly the oldest surviving recorded game of chess. The game was played in Valenica, part of modern-day Spain, then under the Crown of Aragon.
This game is the oldest surviving example on MODERN chess, i.e. using modern rules for the most part, but more importantly the modern Queen (called "ajedrez de la dama" in Spain, "ala rabiosa" in Italy and "eschés de la dame enragée" in France).
The game was never actually played as such, but was the conception of three men, Francesc de Castellvi, Narcis de Vinyoles and Bernat Fenollar who were part of the literary scene in late 15th century Valencia. They wrote an 64 stanza allegorical poem, circa 1475, called "Scachs d’amor." In this poem Mars (Castellvi) played the Red pieces against Venus (Vinyoles) who had the Green. Mercury (Fenollar) acted as sort of an arbitor and explained the rules. The story is that the gods are trying to settle which one is best in the arts of love. Equally important, the existance of the poem pinpoints Spain as the most likely birthplace of Modern Chess.
The best translation I've ever come across can be read here: http://www.scachsdamor.org/
My post was just to clear up that the photo was by Stieglitz, the piece by Duchamp. As I recall, Duchamp was a Dadaist at the time.
I find it ironic the original was trashed!