Analysing chess opening positions with an engine in correspondence

Hi all. I was wondering if this is considered cheating, because I think it perhaps should be. What are your thoughts?

Obviously one isn't allowed in correspondence to analyse one's current game position with an engine, but here on the site it allows you to open up a master game with your current opening position, (not cheating so far), but then look a few moves ahead with the game explorer feature and then analyse that  resulting position (that could easily occur in one's game) position with stockfish! Is this not cheating?

It's not technically cheating to use an engine to analyze a position that might happen.

But it certainly goes against the spirit of the rules.

And if you play a lot of engine quality moves then you'll risk getting banned.

And if my opponent were using an engine that way, then I wouldn't want to play them again.

It's only snorespondence chess if one allows engine use in my opinion. The players still need to think for themselves if play is without engine use. You can't just play out a correspondence game all by trial and error in one's pre-move analysis! there are too many possibilities. 

Well it just depends.

If someone plays 2...g6 in the sicilian, and I explore the main line, then even if I'm using the engine on move 15 I can be reasonably sure we'll get that position in our game. Add a couple of sidelines, and at that point it's basically just cheating.

Yes I agree stiggling. I'm also of the opinion engine's shouldn't be allowed. I was just making my last comment in reference to people analysing without the engine, just moving the pieces around. (As a response to 666Buffchix's comment)

Not sure what all this hogwash is, but it is simple.

Let's say you are doing a 1 year project of studying the Marshall Attack and Anti-Marshall lines of the Ruy Lopez.  4 months in, you have a Ruy Lopez with 8.c3 d5.  To say that you must now cease your 1 year study with a computer is hogwash.  I will continue my project, and if I happen to hit the same position then so be it.  The games doesn't really start in the Marshall until move 15.

Now if you get to move 24 and specifically set up your exact position via edit position, that is cheating.  But to tell me that I am forbidden from studying the openings I play for 6 months (1...e6 and 1...e5 against 1.e4) simply because I have an ongoing correspondence game with a French, Petroff, Marshall, or Anti-Marshall is total baloney!

Well, again, it's a difficult topic.

I know a few people who were banned for "cheating" in daily chess, but they were just using the extensive engine analysis they had done before the game started.

I don't use opening explorer when playing although I am fairly new.  I use my longer games to help me get ready to play OTB where I will not have any assistance.  I am trying to use my own wits what little there is to play well.

"It's not technically cheating to use an engine to analyze a position that might happen."

This statement is incorrect. Do not listen to random posters interpretations of the rules. They are often wrong. Best to contact chess.com directly if unsure about the rules.

From any position in correspondence chess, the next move by your opponent is unknown. It is a position that "might happen." It is against the rules to use an engine to analyze possible positions. 

This is not the same as following ECO/MCO opening books or following moves shown in the opening explorer. But analysis of said positions and possible next moves by the opponent by engines is against the rules. Such analysis must always be done by yourself, without outside help. 

lol.

Sure, when you rephrase the question in a way that no sane person would have ever asked it, the answer is obvious.

I agree. You should feel free to analyse to death any completed or published game in addition to any published analysis. Some may consider this a "gray area".

The question at hand is -

Games in progress.

Of course, any projects using engine analysis is perfectly fine.

However, once a game is started,  is in progress, it becomes a different question. Use your notes the same as MCO or opening explorer. If you find yourself in a game that matches ongoing engine analysis, you would be breaking the rules by continuing to analyze the position with an engine AFTER your last analyzed position. (before the live game started)

In other words, it is against the rules to analyze LIVE game positions with an engine.

Are you sure you read the OP?

Let me quote it for you:

"...open up a master game with your current opening position, (not cheating so far), but then look a few moves ahead with the game explorer feature(Still not cheating so far) and then analyze that resulting position (that could easily occur in one's game) position with stockfish."(Now that's cheating)

https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/articles/1444948

https://support.chess.com/customer/portal/articles/1444774

• Outside assistance from other people, computers/chess engines, or endgame tablebases is entirely prohibited
• In turn-based chess, You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer). for opening moves.
• Openings books and game databases may be consulted for Online (correspondence-style) Chess only

These rules have always struck me as ambiguous.

Define "opening moves".

I had a correspondence game where my opponent and I (after some move order nuances in the first ten moves) followed a previously played draw for 26 or 27 moves. I deviated to end his conditional moves after he had been banned from the site and won on time.

Of course, most good opening books have whole games.

A feature