Any Would be Mentors out there?
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Jul 2, 2008
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#21
Judge the advice/lesson/move, not the person giving/making it. Even low levels can give good advice. Take what you can use, and set aside the rest.
I love how it's only the relatively weak players who want to claim that weak players are good teachers. 
Jul 2, 2008
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#24
fischer wrote: I love how it's only the relatively weak players who want to claim that weak players are good teachers.
Weak players can still teach weaker players up to their level. A weak player may have gained knowledge that a weaker player doesn't have. Sure it's best to have a constant source for information (like a highly rated player willing to teach,) but there's no reason to deny other sources (other players.)
PerfectGent wrote: fischer wrote: I love how it's only the relatively weak players who want to claim that weak players are good teachers.
oh really would you call my 2000+ [Chess.com rating] a weak rating?
Good heavens, you ask such a question, but would you really be satisfied with an honest answer?
In any case, I will be diplomatic and reply by saying "see Post #20".
Sunshiny wrote:
Weak players can still teach weaker players up to their level. A weak player may have gained knowledge that a weaker player doesn't have. Sure it's best to have a constant source for information (like a highly rated player willing to teach,) but there's no reason to deny other sources (other players.)
You missed the point. The OP has a life and does not have unlimited time for chess. In the absence of a good teacher, a really good book by a really strong player will be much more effective in improving his game than a mediocre Chess.com person.
Jul 3, 2008
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#27
fischer wrote: Sunshiny wrote:
Weak players can still teach weaker players up to their level. A weak player may have gained knowledge that a weaker player doesn't have. Sure it's best to have a constant source for information (like a highly rated player willing to teach,) but there's no reason to deny other sources (other players.)
You missed the point. The OP has a life and does not have unlimited time for chess. In the absence of a good teacher, a really good book by a really strong player will be much more effective in improving his game than a mediocre Chess.com person.
I got your point, but you missed mine. I'm saying good advice from any source shouldn't be disregarded.
A really good book would be better than most chess players. As PerfectGent has pointed out, not all players have the ability to teach well. Since Dvaud is looking for a person to teach him, the argument of using a book is pointless.
I'm presently helping out dvaud a little, and he's *also* reading. The thing to remember is that advice a player of my level can give must be taken with a pinch of salt - its very easier to pick up the bad habits of your teacher!
But I'm not professing to be able to pick the correct moves in any position, my intent is to help dvaud (and anyone else who is interested, time allowing) think about the game in a different manner and help some of the information in the books he is reading take up a permanent place in his brain. I'm quite good at finding different ways to explain a theoretical concept, and If I understand a principle well enough to converse about i it (regardless of how well I apply it at the board) then I am in a position to help someone else learn by teaching the principle.
Anyone who doesn't have at least one book on chess is sorely losing out, BTW - books can be read in more comfortable and meditative environments than words from a computer screen, not least of which is in bed, where chess notation can be a wondrous sleep aid.
grey_pieces wrote:
I'm presently helping out dvaud a little, and he's *also* reading. The thing to remember is that advice a player of my level can give must be taken with a pinch of salt - its very easier to pick up the bad habits of your teacher!...
This is wonderful to hear. I think dvaud may have lucked out in meeting you. Most people would never utter these words, so it's obvious that you have a genuine interest in helping him out. Good luck to the both of you.
Sunshiny wrote:
I got your point, but you missed mine. I'm saying good advice from any source shouldn't be disregarded.
Point still missed. The OP has a life. Weak players give mostly bad advice. Beginners cannot distinguish between the good and the bad. So if the OP needs to go to an outside source to confirm whether or not good advice is being given to him, then he may as well cut out the middleman.
Since Dvaud is looking for a person to teach him, the argument of using a book is pointless.
Books are not written by the book fairy. They're written by GM's and IM's (much stronger than anyone on these forums) and intended for people who do not have access to a good teacher.
Jul 3, 2008
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#31
fischer wrote: Sunshiny wrote:
Point still missed. The OP has a life. Weak players give mostly bad advice. Beginners cannot distinguish between the good and the bad. So if the OP needs to go to an outside source to confirm whether or not good advice is being given to him, then he may as well cut out the middleman.
No, i got your point. However, you suggested that he should find someone rated at an expert level or better. Ideally, it is best to find the highest rated player that can teach. The problem is that he may pass up class A and class B players that are willing to teach and can teach him what he needs to know.
Books are not written by the book fairy. They're written by GM's and IM's (much stronger than anyone on these forums) and intended for people who do not have access to a good teacher.
Again, he wants someone he can interact with to teach him. Since your case is to seek out the very best he can get (not that i'm disagreeing with this,) then you should be telling him to pick up a book because they're written by GM's and IM's and because they're much stronger than anyone on these forums. Your recommendation of using books is pointless otherwise.
Jul 3, 2008
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#32
I am packing for my family beach vacation. You guys will be happy to know that I am packing my TWO chess books: Practical Chess Exercises by Ray Cheng, and Chess Opening Essentials Vol 1: the complete 1.e4. Also, my Amazon.com wishlist has a large list of more books for my wife to buy me as I get through these. Books by Silman, Solstis, Watson, and others that were highly rated or recommended to me. I have read The Complete Idiot's Guide to Chess which was a great overview of the game.
I am also packing my 1st issue of Chess life magazine, my 12-year-old Kasparov computer board game, and finally my hand-held PSP Chessmaster game for the beach & pool!
I struck out with a local club but I will learn this game one way or the other! I am very appreciative of the resources and ability to play people on this site also. The willingness of much higher rated players to play me and help me learn is just icing on the cake!
Thanks all for your help - talk to you in a week!
Sunshiny wrote:
No, i got your point. However, you suggested that he should find someone rated at an expert level or better. Ideally, it is best to find the highest rated player that can teach. The problem is that he may pass up class A and class B players that are willing to teach and can teach him what he needs to know.
Please reread Post #35. (BTW, you need to reread the first part of your own Post #29, which included a much broader statement than your current {mis}characterization.)
Again, he wants someone he can interact with to teach him.
Really? Reread his Post #37. Also, reread my Post #31.
Since your case is to seek out the very best he can get
I never said this. Please reread Post #11.
(not that i'm disagreeing with this,) then you should be telling him to pick up a book because they're written by GM's and IM's and because they're much stronger than anyone on these forums.
Posts #11 and #35 are not about each other. Please reread them.
Your recommendation of using books is pointless otherwise.
Please reread--carefully this time--Post #35 again. (I do not need to reread Post #32) Also, the OP apparently disagrees with your statement judging from Post #37. Sorry about that.
dvaud wrote:
I am packing for my family beach vacation. You guys will be happy to know that I am packing my TWO chess books: Practical Chess Exercises by Ray Cheng, and Chess Opening Essentials Vol 1: the complete 1.e4. Also, my Amazon.com wishlist has a large list of more books for my wife to buy me as I get through these. Books by Silman, Solstis, Watson, and others that were highly rated or recommended to me...
Silman and Watson are both excellent writers. Don't listen to those who may tell you that reading them is pointless advice. 
Jul 4, 2008
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#35
fischer wrote: dvaud wrote:
I am packing for my family beach vacation. You guys will be happy to know that I am packing my TWO chess books: Practical Chess Exercises by Ray Cheng, and Chess Opening Essentials Vol 1: the complete 1.e4. Also, my Amazon.com wishlist has a large list of more books for my wife to buy me as I get through these. Books by Silman, Solstis, Watson, and others that were highly rated or recommended to me...
Silman and Watson are both excellent writers. Don't listen to those who may tell you that reading them is pointless advice.
I have nothing against using books. However, your advice is pointless if he's looking for player help. It's like if he wants to buy a bicycle to reduce his travel time and you suggest he get a car because it's better.
Jul 4, 2008
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#36
fischer wrote: Sunshiny wrote:
Please reread Post #35. (BTW, you need to reread the first part of your own Post #29, which included a much broader statement than your current {mis}characterization.)
Yes, it may seem like i made a broader statement earlier, but i added class A and class B players because your statement that he should only seek someone with an expert rating or better to teach him allows it.
Really? Reread his Post #37. Also, reread my Post #31.
Read post #1. Did he ask for player help, book recommendation, or both? The fact that he is using books is irrelevant.
I never said this. Please reread Post #11.
I did take a little liberty with this, but do you disagree that he should find the best? My point was that even though that's what he should seek, don't pass up other good offers that may pass his way.
Posts #11 and #35 are not about each other. Please reread them.
What both posts don't discuss are players that fall between expert and beginner, which i've decided to bring upfront since you think they can't be of any help.
Please reread--carefully this time--Post #35 again. (I do not need to reread Post #32) Also, the OP apparently disagrees with your statement judging from Post #37. Sorry about that.
Again, his choice to read books has nothing to do with seeking player help. He had books even before seeking player help.
Sunshiny wrote:
Yes, it may seem like i made a broader statement earlier, but i added class A and class B players because your statement that he should only seek someone with an expert rating or better to teach him allows it.
You specifically said that "weak players can still teach weaker players up to their level", and that was not a response to my initial post.
Read post #1. Did he ask for player help, book recommendation, or both? The fact that he is using books is irrelevant.
I have read all previous posts, unlike some people here. The OP wants 'help', and if the members here can make a helpful suggestion, it would be silly to withhold such information.
You really do need to read these posts more carefully. The OP isn't just "using" books. The fact that he has accepted some of our book recommendations proves that he has a different opinion on this matter than you do. If the rest of the members had the same attitude as you, he would have been denied this very useful information.
I did take a little liberty with this, but do you disagree that he should find the best?
You really don't read previous posts, do you? Take a look at my initial post in this thread. My advice to the OP is as clear as the light of day. (Then again, maybe you're living near one of the poles in 24-hour darkness?) Nobody would ever advise a beginner to seek the BEST. (Who is the BEST anyway? Gary Kasparov, Vladimir Kramnik, or Vishy Anand?) Seriously, read my initial post. Then read my subsequent posts which further elaborate my position.
My point was that even though that's what he should seek, don't pass up other good offers that may pass his way.
You didn't read Post #35, did you? Please humor me and do so right now. I beg you to do it because I already addressed this point. But I'll repeat myself again, and I'll type it slowly:
The OP stated that he's a beginner. And as I said in Post #35, beginners do not know what's good and what's bad because, well, they're beginners! And if a beginner has to seek a knowledgeable player in order to determine what is good and what is bad, then the said beginner may as well seek the knowledgeable player from the outset.
What both posts don't discuss are players that fall between expert and beginner, which i've decided to bring upfront since you think they can't be of any help.
Here we go again. (I feel like I'm talking to Forrest Gump here.) I never said that. Never said that at all. (Forrest Gump was a great movie, BTW. But I suppose I can't recommend it to anyone since the OP didn't ask about it.)
In any case, I beg you once more to read my initial post. Please, just humor me and do it. I beg you. Please. Pretty please. Because you seem to enjoy fabricating statements from thin air. For the record, part of my initial post said:
"No doubt players rated below that level [of 2000 USCF] can give you good nuggets of advice here and there..."
Please do me the honor of reading the rest.
Again, his choice to read books has nothing to do with seeking player help. He had books even before seeking player help.
And in the future, he will have books that were recommended to him by very helpful members, no thanks to you.
Sunshiny wrote:
I have nothing against using books. However, your advice is pointless if he's looking for player help. It's like if he wants to buy a bicycle to reduce his travel time and you suggest he get a car because it's better.
Judging from dvaud's posts, it looks like he got the car. 
PerfectGent wrote:
no please be brutally honest
please enlighten us from your great height of a 1200 rating. and no posted official rating
played 1 lost 1. since aug 2007
Come now, friend. Be a little more honest on the forums. I haven't even played any rated games, and the only unrated game I played was vs Yelena Dembo, an IM who would have you for lunch (or a pre-lunch snack, more likely).
Anyway, I'm not going to answer your question; it will only anger you further. I apologize if I had hurt your feelings.
Have a good day.