Are Men and Women Equal at Chess?

Sort:
Avatar of SoupSailor
I think it’s obvious that the current divide between men and women in chess is largely due to the fact that less women play the game. However, I wonder, if just as many women played chess as men, would they be equal?

It is known that in IQ and other mental tests, men have more outliers than women. That means that men are more likely to be on the extremely high or extremely low end of the spectrum, and women more densely populate the middle.

Professional chess players are outliers, by definition. If the above hypothesis is also true by chess, it would follow that since men have more outliers, they would also have more professional chess players. With more professional chess players, they would also be more likely to produce the world champion.

This theory is often called misogynistic. However, this is a scientific argument, not based on any contempt or bias. Misogyny is not a valid claim here. Men and women have other advantages and disadvantages, and that’s what makes both of them unique and special. (Additionally, this would mean that less women would be horrible at chess.)

If this is true, it would support women’s titles as a permanent measure, not just a temporary tool to attract more women to the game. It would also support separate women’s tournaments and a separate women’s world championship being held indefinitely.

I think the likelihood of this hypothesis being true is high. Although women can certainly gain ground by introducing more to the game, I think they will eventually plateau at a slightly lower level than men.

What do you think?
Avatar of salmallic

To what extent do you think IQ actually plays a role? Surely some (or all, don't really know the exact stats) professional chess players have high IQ, but it could be correlation rather than causation.

With the recent development in technology, unfortunately chess has really become more about pattern recognition, memorisation and correct engine use for prep. Not saying that creativity is completely out of the picture now, but it surely has less space. As for intelligence it only plays a role for the time it takes for you to understand a concept imo, i.e. someone more intelligent could understand the ideas behind a certain rook ending faster than someone who less.

So everything said above aside, are there more factors that come into play? Probably, and plenty of them at that, because humans are complex. So even if the numbers of the 2 sides become equal, would you ensure that all the other factors are also equal, thus proving that gender is the limiting factor?

Avatar of SoupSailor
- Probably little to no role. My theory is simply that chess works similar to IQ.

-But things like engine use are equal on both sides. On the categories that are actually different, men might have an advantage.

-What other factors? Something women would have an advantage in?
Avatar of SoupSailor
Also can you see the separate paragraphs in the original post? If not f*** you chess.com.
Avatar of salmallic

I can dw

Avatar of SoupSailor
yea on mobile it cuts them out so thx
Avatar of salmallic

The engine use bit was just to explain how it's not all intelligence. But your brought a great point, "are equal on both sides". Theoretically, they are. But practically can you ensure that?

In the ongoing WCh a question was asked in the press conference to both parties; what "super computer" they are using iirc. And it might not have much weight because technically speaking the majority of people have access to at least mobile phones and so browser engine and analysis, but the depth and the capability of a device to run that depth matters, and also probably the speed of internet. This can't even be equally provided to all men who play chess competitively, so it's one factor you can't eliminate, aka resources

Avatar of SoupSailor
That factor doesn’t specifically favor one side over the other, so I’m not sure what you mean.
Avatar of salmallic

Other factors would be economical status (which would lead a bigger topic of the problems of women employment), when they are introduced to the game (this applies more to my country/experience but I have seen plenty of girls who don't know what's chess or how it's played but boys do because it's played at "qahwas"- places where men usually meet to drink beverages, watch matches or play board games), whether coaches are willing to teach them, if those coaches purposefully limit them to only playing in womens' section because they can easily place, if the parents are willing to support them into a men stereotyped game compared to a safer option like ballet, if a proper mindset is instilled into them, the discouragement from seeing more male:female players and seeing mainly the men placing

Plenty of factors really, those are what I can think of at the moment

Avatar of salmallic
SoupSailor72 wrote:
That factor doesn’t specifically favor one side over the other, so I’m not sure what you mean.

At face value surely. Could be linked to the first factor I said above though

Avatar of SoupSailor
How does it help women over men to balance out my theory though? Sounds like it would actually help men. However, I don’t think this is a significant factor regardless, you can disagree.
Avatar of hudson_the_goat
Why are we debating this again, your race religion or gender dose not always play a roll in your chess rating
Avatar of SoupSailor
Why are we debating this again, your race religion or gender dose not always play a roll in your chess rating




Did you read my theory?
Avatar of idilis

2 legs gooood. 3 legs baaaaatter

Avatar of hudson_the_goat
Yes but that dose not necessarily directly relate to your rating
Avatar of idilis
ninjahudson wrote:
Why are we debating this again, your race religion or gender dose not always play a roll in your chess rating

Depends on the dose and he's on a roll. Don't stop him.

Avatar of salmallic

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding, sorry if I mixed some stuff up. Just trying to say that intelligence isn't all there is to it, and that women wouldn't plateau at a slightly lower level simply solely because of intelligence. That the problem isn't only in the number of women players to begin with

Avatar of SoupSailor
Yes but that dose not necessarily directly relate to your rating



The theory is not that based on IQ. It’s that chess intelligence works similar to IQ, as a metric.
Avatar of SoupSailor
I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding, sorry if I mixed some stuff up. Just trying to say that intelligence isn't all there is to it, and that women wouldn't plateau at a slightly lower level simply solely because of intelligence. That the problem isn't only in the number of women players to begin with



Sorry, but I’m having trouble comprehending what you are saying here.
Avatar of hudson_the_goat
Its fine I understand what you’re saying, I’m just saying there are exceptions to your theory