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Best endgame player ever - Andersson or Smyslov?

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GreedyPawnGrabber

 Who is the best endgame player ever? Two come to my mind - Andersson and Smyslov. Who would you choose? 

TetsuoShima

probably rubinstein, i dont understand him at all and thats why he must be the greatest endgame player ever.

SmyslovFan

About two years ago, I would have said it was Vladimir Kramnik. But the things that Magnus Carlsen can do in completely even endgames is mindboggling.

Historically, Rubinstein, Smyslov, Andersson and Jon Speelman all deserve special recognition.

GreedyPawnGrabber

I don't think Carlsen can be considered endgame master. He does not have enough experience. Endgame knowledge is based on experience.  I forgot to mention Karpov. However, he didn't rely on his endgame technique to the extent to which Andersson did.

BloodyJack
GreedyPawnGrabber wrote:

I don't think Carlsen can be considered endgame master. He does not have enough experience. Endgame knowledge is based on experience.  I forgot to mention Karpov. However, he didn't rely on his endgame technique to the extent to which Andersson did.

But Carlsen is known mostly for his endgame technique, and the whole 2870 thing. Of all the things I've heard about Carlsen from critics, lack of endgame mastery is not one of them.

JMB2010

Rubinstein,Lasker,Capablanca,Maroczy,Smyslov

And when you say andersson, do you mean Adolf or Ulf?

blake78613
GreedyPawnGrabber wrote:

I don't think Carlsen can be considered endgame master. He does not have enough experience. Endgame knowledge is based on experience.  I forgot to mention Karpov. However, he didn't rely on his endgame technique to the extent to which Andersson did.

I would not include Karpov except for defense.  Karpov's weakness in the endgame was that he wouldn't take the risks necessary to convert a small advantage into a win.  He allowed a lot of draws when he had an advantage.

GreedyPawnGrabber

Ulf Andersson of course. 

JMB2010
GreedyPawnGrabber wrote:

Ulf Andersson of course. 

Just making sure :-)

SmyslovFan

Karpov dominated his opponents in the endgame. He won many games as Black entirely because of his endgame mastery. His score against Jan Timman alone is largely due to his excellent endgame technique. 

Karpov-Hort 1979 is just one example of his endgame mastery. And Karpov's endgames against Korchnoi helped him to the world title in 1974, 1978, and 1981.

Karpov was one of the great endgame players of all time.

TetsuoShima
SmyslovFan wrote:

Karpov dominated his opponents in the endgame. He won many games as Black entirely because of his endgame mastery. His score against Jan Timman alone is largely due to his excellent endgame technique. 

Karpov-Hort 1979 is just one example of his endgame mastery. And Karpov's endgames against Korchnoi helped him to the world title in 1974, 1978, and 1981.

Karpov was one of the great endgame players of all time.

right i remember a really pretty engame where he won against kasparov. I think he dominated the bishop with his horsy, very nice considering that i often fall asleep when watching Karpov but that endgame was indeed interesting.

SmyslovFan
TetsuoShima wrote:
 

right i remember a really pretty engame where he won against kasparov. I think he dominated the bishop with his horsy, very nice considering that i often fall asleep when watching Karpov but that endgame was indeed interesting.

I'm not sure, but I think the endgame you remember was one that Kasparov won brilliantly. I'll dig it up.

JMB2010

The one he is thinking of was one in the 1984/85 match where Karpov won brilliantly. I'll post it if anyone wants.

TetsuoShima

yeah if you have time it would be nice

SmyslovFan

Here's one B vs N endgame that Karpov won against Kasparov. This may be the one you mean. Start after Black's 44th move for the critical endgame.



JMB2010

All I did was copy the game from the database;the annotations are GM Daniel King's.

SmyslovFan

For whatever reason, the "set focus" function doesn't seem to be working. Yeah, Karpov's 47.Ng2! was one of the most brilliant moves in that match.

TetsuoShima

yes it was, it wasnt as beautiful as i thought it was, but it was highly educative and informative. Thank you verry much for posting it. 

TetsuoShima
SmyslovFan wrote:

For whatever reason, the "set focus" function doesn't seem to be working. Yeah, Karpov's 47.Ng2! was one of the most brilliant moves in that match.

yeah who would thought of such a move, even so now it seems to make perfect sense.

Fear_ItseIf

Andersson, his endgames actually make me want to do endgame study.