By January 1990, there were 21 players from the Soviet Union (again, including Boris Gulko), ranked 11-50.
Edited to add my source:
http://fidelists.blogspot.com/2008/03/january-1990-fide-rating-list.html
By January 1990, there were 21 players from the Soviet Union (again, including Boris Gulko), ranked 11-50.
Edited to add my source:
http://fidelists.blogspot.com/2008/03/january-1990-fide-rating-list.html
You're just helping explain the data in that study ;). So, 24 points increase from '86 to '88, 16 point increase from '88 to '90, then about 2-3 ratings points/year, very slowly decreasing in recent years to 1-2 points/year.
Looks like a tailing off duck to me...by the early 90s the Soviet "boom" effect on chess ratings was over.
Btickler, Rod Edwards cherry picked his data by only analysing the players ranked 11-50. The general population did not see a 25 point rating increase from 1986-1988.
There is an explanation as to why the players ranked 11-50 increased in rating, there was an influx of strong players.
That is not rating inflation, that is accurately measuring an influx of new, strong players.
Smyslovfan, I just stated that it was a one-off effect, so I am not saying that a 25 point increase was caused by some overall ratings inflation process. If there were better published numbers for the overall pool that clearly factored in all events and adjustments, that would be great for proving the point beyond a doubt, but there aren't, and I don't expect it to be in FIDE's interests to lay out such a timeline/history. Indirect data, approximations, and examining subsets are the only way to scrutinize this...circumstantial evidence.
Anyway, I doubt we are going to reach any agreement on this given that we are arguing about the contents of a black box that will not be opened, but I will say that I respect and appreciate you discussing this with some research "vigor" rather than saying "this is abstract and arbitrary and who can say one way or the other?" ;)
P.S. If you ever want to come at the ratings/leaderboard stuff from a different angle than just chess, try Wharton Business School's Gamification class...it's available online free through Coursera.
Btickler, the FIDE ratings lists are published and available for anyone who has the time, desire and mathematical background to peruse it.
That work has been performed by Elo who stated that he had not seen a drift in 18 years, not 16 years (1970-1988, not 1970-1986), and by Kenneth Regan.
People who take a small section of players, such as the #1 player, #100 player, or those ranked 11-50, are not measuring general inflation. There are many explanations to why ratings have increased at the top. The most obvious, and simplest (Hi, Occam!) is that chess players have improved over the years.
Chess historians and players, from Reti and Euwe to Kasparov and Nakamura, have all acknowledged that chess skill has progressed over time. They have shown how players today are standing on the shoulders of giants. Ratings improve as players improve.
While the FIDE ratings list is not set against absolutes, it is stable.
The argument in favor of ratings inflation always feels like an attempt to denigrate the accomplishments of Kasparov, Kramnik and Carlsen. The person who benefits from these arguments? Bobby Fischer. It always seems to come back to arguing that he was better than any player since.
Fischer was amazing, and it has taken decades for the rest of the chess world to catch up. Even now, his best rating (2785) would tie him for fourth overall on the FIDE lists.
That statistic alone should be proof enough that ratings have not been inflated. From 1972-2014, Fischer's rating has been good enough to be among the top players in the world.
I am not arguing that overall distributed chess skill among the player pool does not also increase over time. I am no stranger to the razor inspired by William of Ockham. However, that does not mean that all of the ratings climb can necessarily be explained by it.
The razor cuts both ways. As I said, it's in FIDE's and the chess world's interests to see ratings go up over time, and while I am not saying this means there is a concrete conspiracy behind a controlled ratings increase, it is highly likely that evolutionary adjustments/policies have been individually created over the decades with a kinder hand towards ratings going up for players rather than down. It's human nature. The right hand does not know what the left is doing, but everyone is generally happier. Ratings slowly go up, and press releases go out...it would be harder and more complex to keep the ratings pool pristine and level than it would to not really pay attention and let it drift slightly. Downward drift would cause frowny faces and be corrected, reasonable upward drift would be left as-is even if identified.
Occam's Razor.
"this is abstract and arbitrary and who can say one way or the other?" ;)
You don't like it, but I think it was a pretty decent point to make, honestly. It's not that the general ideas you brought up (I referred to them earlier) don't work, but that you are jumping to conclusions with them more quickly and confidently than is probably justified.
Even with the Regan stuff, I still have some scepticism in me (see, I'm applying my own annoying comments you don't like to my position as well!). I tend to believe him, but I am aware that things can be misleading -- just as an example, there are so many different ways to choose engine data -- what move do you start from, when do you end, how important is the margin between the given move and the engine move, etc. I lean towards inflation being false, but I am still fairly far from certain.
There are other reasons for my belief too such as the general feeling that the quality of play is stronger (for example the kind of precision in the endgame it takes to win games now feels almost machine like) -- but note how I hadn't brought it up, because I know the fallibility of these subjective feelings.
It's definetly doable but he has to work really hard if he wants to achieve a 3000 elo rating. In Shamkir Chess Tournament he lost to Fabiano Caruana. Those small losses will work against his achievements. But I'm with him all the way.
I think Magnus does not like to play engines mostly bcoz fear of getting demolished every time... So until he changes his attitude he can't reach 3000. Coz the engines are only path leading to heaven, I mean above 3000... But until now no sign from Magnus to rely on engines to fulfill ur wishes all u patzers...
Engines are good, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the giant beasts that everyone think's they are. They can beat most players, but most players over 2700 I think would match and beat alot of engines out there because of the difference in how humans and computers function. Plus you can't play against computers and get FIDE points, only can play against human players.
Magnus won today's Gashimov Memorial with +3. He won the tournament by a full point. He gained 1/10th of a rating point.
3000 may be mathematically possible, but it's not humanly possible. 2900 is incredible enough, and I do think he will break that mark.
I think Magnus does not like to play engines mostly bcoz fear of getting demolished every time... So until he changes his attitude he can't reach 3000. Coz the engines are only path leading to heaven, I mean above 3000... But until now no sign from Magnus to rely on engines to fulfill ur wishes all u patzers...
Engines are good, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the giant beasts that everyone think's they are. They can beat most players, but most players over 2700 I think would match and beat alot of engines out there because of the difference in how humans and computers function. Plus you can't play against computers and get FIDE points, only can play against human players.
SmyslovFan hits the nail on the head. +3 against an INCREDIBLY STRONG field is worth .1 Elo point.
Magnus will likely reach 2900. Perhaps even 2920. But beyond that? He's limited for the same reason Kasparov couldn't make it past 2851...you get to a point where you have to win the majority of your games to keep gaining points, and at this level you are not going to win the majority of your games all that often.
This tournament cost him a tiny amount of points, but if you also take into account the one other recent game he played (and won), then he gained points.
Prior to this tournament he was on 2882.3 (he won 1.3 for a league match in Norway) so this tournament cost him 1.2 points.
Assuming all other results were the same, if he'd drawn the matches he lost to Caruana and Radjabov he'd now be on 2891.
If he'd won those two matches he'd have cracked the 2900 barrier at 2901. Just shows what two poor games can do to a rating!
PDubya, thats true, he played my coach GM Vladimir Georgiev in the battle Stavanger vs Nordstrand. Magnus and Stavanger chessclub won. A huge achievement! I didnt play, because I am not near qualifying for our first team (or, second, 3,4,5,6 or seventh).
So if he can beat 2550 GM ´s in every match, he will gain 1.3 points in each of those matches.
I think Magnus is the most consistent of the top players, and is maybe the best at saving difficult positions.
ELO is not an exact moving micro measure of a chess players ability at playing chess. There are many variables involved in a chess player's performance in every game, such as adequate rest, domestic matters, health, to name just a few that ELO is unable to factor in. Hence, slight differences in rating say 2890 v.s. 3010 is really almost meaningless. Does not mean that the former cannot beat the latter, as we could say with certainty that heat measuring 110 degrees Farenheight is always hotter than one below it. ELO is not a speedometer, or tachchometer.
...a process that would have started with a bang and tailed off over time...not a "steady influx".