Can opponent move before you press the clock?

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Avatar of TheDrevland

There are some kids around here that starts moving pieces after i moved before im anywhere close to the clock. sometimes they even press the clock BEFORE me which i guess i shouldnt complain about since their time is running but is this legal? I thought it was still my turn until i press the clock?

Avatar of TheDrevland

moves are finalised when you hit the clock right?

Avatar of TheDrevland

thats i thought to but i struggle to find it covered in the FIDE rules

Avatar of TheDrevland

COMPETITION RULES

Article 6: The chessclock

6.1      

‘Chessclock’ means a clock with two time displays, connected to each other in such a way that only one of them can run at one time.

‘Clock’ in the Laws of Chess means one of the two time displays.

Each time display has a ‘flag’.

‘Flag-fall’ means the expiration of the allotted time for a player.

6.2      
  1. During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock (that is to say, he shall press his clock). This “completes” the move. A move is also completed if:
    1. the move ends the game (see Articles 5.1.a, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c, 9.6a, 9.6b and 9.7), or
    2. the player has made his next move, in case his previous move was not completed.
    A player must be allowed to stop his clock after making his move, even after the opponent has made his next move. The time between making the move on the chessboard and pressing the clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to the player.
  2. A player must press his clock with the same hand with which he made his move. It is forbidden for a player to keep his finger on the clock or to ‘hover’ over it.
  3. The players must handle the chessclock properly. It is forbidden to press it forcibly, to pick it up, to press the clock before moving or to knock it over. Improper clock handling shall be penalised in accordance with Article 12.9.
  4. Only the player whose clock is running is allowed to adjust the pieces.
  5. If a player is unable to use the clock, an assistant, who must be acceptable to the arbiter, may be provided by the player to perform this operation. His clock shall be adjusted by the arbiter in an equitable way. This adjustment of the clock shall not apply to the clock of a player with a disability.
Avatar of TheDrevland

can i point to 6.2 d?

Avatar of thou-shalt-not-take
TheDrevland wrote:

There are some kids around here that starts moving pieces after i moved before im anywhere close to the clock. sometimes they even press the clock BEFORE me which i guess i shouldnt complain about since their time is running but is this legal? I thought it was still my turn until i press the clock?

If it's a premove game, no. If not, yes.

Avatar of Ziggy_Zugzwang

I understand a move to be complete when a player takes his hand off his moved piece.

Consider this. Player A moves and before he can press the clock , Player B moves. As this happens, it's too fast for Player A not to press the clock, so Player A moves, Player B moves and A and B press the clock in quick succession.

BUT what if player A moves as before and Player B moves quickly, BUT as player B get up from the table having made his move, Player A presses the clock, on the basis that's what you do after you make a move ...What about this scenario ? Is Player A correct to press the clock ?

Avatar of Rsava

Ziggy - According to this, yes, Player A is correct:

A player must be allowed to stop his clock after making his move, even after the opponent has made his next move. The time between making the move on the chessboard and pressing the clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to the player.

 

This says Player A must be allowed to press his clock. So in that case, Player A can think while he awaits Player B stopping his clock.

 

 

Avatar of Ziggy_Zugzwang

That's interesting - thanks !

Avatar of MickinMD
TheDrevland wrote:

There are some kids around here that starts moving pieces after i moved before im anywhere close to the clock. sometimes they even press the clock BEFORE me which i guess i shouldnt complain about since their time is running but is this legal? I thought it was still my turn until i press the clock?

You are right.  Your move is not completed until you press the clock.  If someone else moves while YOUR clock is running, stop the clocks and see the Arbiter/Tournament Director.

FIDE has changed the wording of its rules from when the move "has been made" to "has been completed."  Both FIDE and USCF say the move is completed ONLY when the clock has been pressed.  So your opponent, who is not allowed to move until the move has been completed is not allowed to move before you press your clock.  Of course, if both of you don't realize you left your clock running, your opponent makes a move after a little time, and hits the clock, there's no penalty.

Avatar of Rsava

 Mick, what if they move, get up and then you hit your clock and they do not see it. You can leave the clock running on their time, correct?

Avatar of TheDrevland
Rsava skrev:

 Mick, what if they move, get up and then you hit your clock and they do not see it. You can leave the clock running on their time, correct?

correct "The time between making the move on the chessboard and pressing the clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to the player."

 

so the guy had nothing to do on the clock until the opponent hits the clock. he should be ableto feel anyway if he press the clock and the button is already down

Avatar of TheDrevland
MickinMD skrev:
TheDrevland wrote:

There are some kids around here that starts moving pieces after i moved before im anywhere close to the clock. sometimes they even press the clock BEFORE me which i guess i shouldnt complain about since their time is running but is this legal? I thought it was still my turn until i press the clock?

 

FIDE has changed the wording of its rules from when the move "has been made" to "has been completed." 

thanks for your time but i think it might be the other way around.  im googling fide rules 2017 and the pages i find says "has been made"

Avatar of Patcharawee

The answer to the Topic Question is "YES."

From FIDE Laws of Chess taking effect from 1 January 2018
(https://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=208&view=article):

"6.2.1 During the game each player, having made his move on the chessboard, shall stop his own clock and start his opponent’s clock (that is to say, he shall press his clock). This “completes” the move. A move is also completed if:

6.2.1.1 the move ends the game (see Articles 5.1.1, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 9.6.1 and 9.6.2), or

6.2.1.2 the player has made his next move, when his previous move was not completed.

6.2.2 A player must be allowed to stop his clock after making his move, even after the opponent has made his next move. The time between making the move on the chessboard and pressing the clock is regarded as part of the time allotted to the player."

Both Articles 6.2.1.2 and 6.2.2 allow for a situation where a player has made a move but has NOT pressed the clock and the opponent makes his next move. The opponent's action is NOT penalizable by any other Article.

Another point to be considered is that a right to make any claim is forfeited as soon as the interested player has made a legal move, or, in other words, when it is NOT this player's turn. Therefore, if the first player has made a legal move, that turn of his immediately ends and he can no longer make a claim, disturb the opponent, or forbid him from doing anything, up until the opponent has made his move.

Lastly, this move-making mechanism is precisely the reason the Articles 9.2.1.1 and 9.3.1 are stated to advise the claiming-for-a-draw player (to give the opponent no chance of responding to a draw-making-move with an immediate countermove) clearly in this way:

"9.2.1 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, when the same position for at least the third time (not necessarily by a repetition of moves):
9.2.1.1 is about to appear, if he first writes his move, which cannot be changed, on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or
9.2.1.2 has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.
9.2.2  Positions are considered the same if and only if the same player has the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same squares and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. Thus positions are not the same if:

9.2.2.1 at the start of the sequence a pawn could have been captured en passant
9.2.2.2 a king had castling rights with a rook that has not been moved, but forfeited these after moving. The castling rights are lost only after the king or rook is moved.
9.3 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, if:

9.3.1 he writes his move, which cannot be changed, on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move which will result in the last 50 moves by each player having been made without the movement of any pawn and without any capture, or

9.3.2 the last 50 moves by each player have been completed without the movement of any pawn and without any capture."  

International Arbiter Patcharawee Brahmawong.

Avatar of BL4D3RUNN3R

To answer the title: yes, it is possible according to the rules. But your opponent cannot prevent you from completing your move.

 

So according to FIDE it can happen:

A moves a (without pressing the clock)

B moves b

A completes a by pressing the clock

B completes b by pressing the clock

 

Avatar of liszt85

An older guy who played a rated OTB blitz game against me got all upset when I made a move when he took forever to complete castling and to press his clock. I wasn't sure what the rules were at the time, it was instinctive, based on how long I thought he'd take to press his clock but my estimate was way off. 

Avatar of Patcharawee
BL4D3RUNN3R wrote:

To answer the title: yes, it is possible according to the rules. But your opponent cannot prevent you from completing your move.

 

So according to FIDE it can happen:

A moves a (without pressing the clock)

B moves b

A completes a by pressing the clock

B completes b by pressing the clock

 

Precisely.

Avatar of DrChesspain
liszt85 wrote:

An older guy who played a rated OTB blitz game against me got all upset when I made a move when he took forever to complete castling and to press his clock. I wasn't sure what the rules were at the time, it was instinctive, based on how long I thought he'd take to press his clock but my estimate was way off. 

 

Although it sounds like you made your move without really thinking too closely about it, he did have a right to be upset, since it was still his move and it was his clock running.

Avatar of liszt85
DrChesspain wrote:
liszt85 wrote:

An older guy who played a rated OTB blitz game against me got all upset when I made a move when he took forever to complete castling and to press his clock. I wasn't sure what the rules were at the time, it was instinctive, based on how long I thought he'd take to press his clock but my estimate was way off. 

 

Although it sounds like you made your move without really thinking too closely about it, he did have a right to be upset, since it was still his move and it was his clock running.

 

Did you read the thread above? I made my move just as he finished castling but his hand took much longer than I expected to hit the clock. Apparently, I was within my legal rights to make my move, if people are correct on this thread about FIDE rules. He could have hit his clock still and I'd just have had to press mine in response and it would be legal. 

Avatar of liszt85
DrChesspain wrote:
liszt85 wrote:

An older guy who played a rated OTB blitz game against me got all upset when I made a move when he took forever to complete castling and to press his clock. I wasn't sure what the rules were at the time, it was instinctive, based on how long I thought he'd take to press his clock but my estimate was way off. 

 

Although it sounds like you made your move without really thinking too closely about it, he did have a right to be upset, since it was still his move and it was his clock running.

 

"Both Articles 6.2.1.2 and 6.2.2 allow for a situation where a player has made a move but has NOT pressed the clock and the opponent makes his next move. The opponent's action is NOT penalizable by any other Article."