Carlsen, Caruana & Yifan: a ratings analysis

Males have no natural advantage for chess playing. Males are better at soccer because they're stronger and faster. But chess relies on the mind, and there is no male advantage there, it's pretty obvious:)

I made an analogy to point out your flawed logic. But we could just as easily use chess. There are plenty of female chess players better than me. That doesn't mean females and males are equally inclined to chess.

It's not that males have "better" or "worse" minds. It's that they're probably inclined to different sorts of things. Chess, like everything else, requires a certain "set" of mental abilities, which males on the whole may be more inclined towards. This is not to take away from anything you do in chess as a female. It is not a decree that females shouldn't play chess, nor is it a statement that any given female couldn't possibly be a great chess player. It is an attempt to explain why females in general may have a more difficult time reaching the top, or why a lot of females do not play chess in the first place.

To me the "jumpiness" of the women's curve seems more interesting than the max level they reach.

Could be interesting. to get some more women curves to see if they have "Jumpy" curves as well. The male curves look like a normal growth curve pretty much, but the womans curves are all over the place.

Women are generally curvier than men.

Chess is a game which involves pattern recognition as it's main feature. I don't know how you look at chess-playing ability, but pattern recognition is not something which males are more inclined to over females. We both have that "certain set of mental abilities":)

Ok, well you can believe that "pattern recognition" is all there is to chess, and that males and females are equal at that, but I believe that's overly simplistic. Nothing really more I want to say.

I said "main feature"

Yeah, I speculated more on this in the other thread. Mathematically speaking, one clear possibility is that the ratings growth of top male players is limited by a lack of stronger players, making their curves asymptotic - i.e. they can only gain less and less points by playing people who have lower ratings than them and beating them more often than not. The top women, on the other hand, keep playing against stronger opposition (the top male players), so their rating fluctuates because they win and lose games to people rated higher and lower than them.

Conclusion: no player whose rating fluctuates (none of the current female players) is at the level of the top players, whose ratings behave asymptotically.

You could try and find some guys that are playing on a level a bit lower than the super players and see if their curves are bouncy as well? Or asymptotic with a lower end point. It'd be intereseting if you could find bouncy guys.

WOW 3 ridiculous women and chess threads in one week!

Lets do a study on who posts the most ridiculous threads; men or women.

I just realized this didn't start out as a women and chess thread. But, it grew into one. So, I in no way hold the OP responsible for this silliness.

Silly? Pashaw!!  Men are also better at tic tac toe.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. I took two more players, one close to Yifan's level and one close to Koneru's:

They're definitely not asymptotic. In fact, Vovk's curve looks remarkably like Yifan's, only shifted to the right (i.e. he's progressing at an older age). This would certainly confirm the effect that I described earlier: those ranked below the top ~10 are struggling to climb upwards in rating (except Wei Yi), because they're playing against the stronger players rated above them.

You also said "but pattern recognition is not something which males are more inclined to over females" and "we both have that certain set of mental abilities." The implication is that if males and females are equal at pattern recognition, they are equally inclined to chess.

Thanks. I actually like this thread, because thanks to SilentKnighte5's suggestion, I learned that Wei Yi (of whom I hadn't even heard before) is on his way to the top. The other likely conclusion is that Hou Yifan will not reach the top.

Isn't this fun?

"10 are struggling to climb upwards in rating (except Wei Yi), because they're playing against the stronger players rated above them"

How many games played and tournaments are they invited to?  If you invite top players to get sponsors then of course lower rated players won't get the chance to move upward.  The rungs of the ladder are being blocked.

I don't know. How many tournaments has Wei Yi been invited to? Did you see him at the Gashimov Memorial?

Schadenfreude 

So, he has to defy laws of physics and be at two tournaments at one time?

http://www.chessbomb.com/arena/2015-wtcc/05-Wei_Yi-Ezat_Mohamed

I don't see the point of your statement even if he wasn't playing in another tournament.  He has to play in Gashimov to validate something?

You were using Yifan's not being invited to Gashimov as some kind of evidence for sexism. I was making a reference to that. Yi is in a similar situation in that he is young and has a comparatively high rating.

Have you actually looked at the graphs I've been displaying in this thread? Hou Yifan's rating is, so far, rising steadily. That means that she's probably also playing against some people rated above her. Your concern that her rating isn't "allowed" to rise seems to be irrelevant.

"You were using Yifan's not being invited to Gashimov as some kind of evidence for sexism."

That was a while back and we are talking about ratings now not sexism, what reference are you making?  You said Wei Yi more recently, not Hou Yifan.  Sorry, I am not following.  Let's stick to one player and not confuse the issue.

"Yi is in a similar situation in that he is young and has a comparatively high rating."

So, what is the point?  Yes, he is young, but similar situation?  No, he is more like a Sergey Karjakin in younger years.  He hasn't won a championship.  I fail to see your point.

"Have you actually looked at the graphs I've been displaying in this thread?"

Yes, and if I saw graphs of inner city school students and compared them to rich suburban students there would be a lot of bias and skewed results.  What are you trying to accomplish by presenting these graphs which don't really point to a final conclusion?  They are just arbitrary findings.

"Hou Yifan's rating is, so far, rising steadily."

Because she was number 1 (is still in many minds). Did Humpy play in Hawaii, can other players get invited also in order to raise their rating points?  Again, what is your point?

"That means that she's probably also playing against some people rated above her."

In order to drive you need a permit.  Who is giving lower rated players the option to compete at higher level tournaments when sponsors want higher rated players?

"Your concern that her rating isn't "allowed" to rise seems to be irrelevant."

That's not what I stated at all.  My claim is that lower rated players are not allowed to compete.  I am stating the opposite of Yifan.  Yifan is number 1 female player, was champion, and could get the title again as challenger.  Can other players like Lagno and Humpy do this?  Are they higher rated female players? Yes, and even they can't play.  I was definitely not talking about Hou Yifan regarding this point.

You completely missed the boat dude.  Have fun with your "irrelevant" graphs.