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Carlsen wants World Championship knockout

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fabelhaft

Carlsen just posted on his Facebook that he would like the World Championship to be decided in a minimatch knockout:

"In short, I strongly believe the chess world should evolve to a more just system. What does that look like? I have long thought that moving to an annual knock-out event, similar to the World Cup, would be more equitable"

MSC157

Ok, but...

If 1-1 after 2 games, additional 2 classical games to be played. And so on.

SocialPanda

Similar?

In that case it would be "instead of"

A World Cup with the participation of the WC? (and then they will have to decide: "In which round is the WC going to be seeded?")

BarbieMassacre

Nice, but he will face strong opposition from the classical minded old folks who don't like change. The romantic idea of a chess match is hard to kill. I myself find matches very nice and all but probably he's right about the more just system.

Synaphai

So he is OK with the format of the Women's World Chess Championship? That's quite a surprise to me.

BarbieMassacre

Actually now that I gave it some thought, I don't like this at all. I was too shallow in my previous comment. Here's what user Dode from chess24.com has to say about it - I like his post:

"More championships and more media coverage. This is the best way to trivialize chess, demystify, remove the depth, into a simple game without depth. As for the media coverage is the big lie that has been repeated. Chess will never be a sport of great media coverage, because nobody who don´t know move the pieces (sic.) can watch a game of 4-6 hours. The confessional inventions such as Norway is bread for today and hunger for tomorrow, because when Magnus longer champion, in Norway will not coverage anything, and along the way they have left a format of TV trash.

Summarizing. The proposed Carlsen makes no sense. Discredits the Championship,the Champion, and tivializa the sport itself. 

Preserve the variables that identify this sport, which is what makes it unique. It must protect their identity, another way, it would be take the path of self-destruction."

SilentKnighte5

I don't like the idea of a KO tournament.  I like the idea of a candidate match system where the current champ has to participate instead of just waiting for his challenger.

Ideal world:

  1. Set of tournaments to generate list of qualifiers.
  2. Qualifiers entered into matchplay tournament along with current champ.
  3. ?
  4. Profit

I think a shorter cycle is good, but not every year.  Every 2 years seems right to me.  A yearly cycle means a neverending championship tournament.  Let a man enjoy his prize for a couple of years.

Charetter115

I like the first to ten wins system. That way we get long matches with dozens of games. A bit impractical but very entertaining.

MSC157

It was First to 6 in '84 and they almost died at the board. :)

fabelhaft

My impression is that the World Championship never interested Carlsen all that much. He considers it much more of an achievement to be clear #1 on the rating list and score repeated wins in top tournaments than to beat Anand in a match. I think he also finds it rather boring with long preparation with a team for one event. But to me the World Championship knockout format is the worst of Kirsan's ideas. It just makes it quite possible for players like Khalifman and Kasimdzhanov to become World Champions. Nothing wrong with them, but they were never close to a top finish in any other World class event, simply because the knockouts are much more of a lottery while the best players tend to win the events with serious formats.

kco

Say something GPE ? Tongue Out

MSC157

Knockout with more games per pair would do it.

SocialPanda

Knockout matches with a longer number of games?

The problem in that case is always the cost, who wants to sponsor a match between Nr. 6 vs Nr. 17 in the live ratings? 

Like this innovative system (but including the WC?)?

  1st Round   Semifinals   Final
                           
  Riga, Apr 1965
     Soviet UnionBoris Spassky 6  
     Soviet UnionPaul Keres 4     Riga, May–June 1965
       Soviet UnionBoris Spassky  
Moscow, Apr 1965      Soviet UnionEfim Geller  
     Soviet UnionVassily Smyslov
     Soviet UnionEfim Geller     Tbilisi, Nov 1965
       Soviet UnionBoris Spassky 7
  Bled, June–July 1965        Soviet UnionMikhail Tal 4
     DenmarkBent Larsen  
     Socialist Federal Republic of YugoslaviaBorislav Ivkov     Bled, July-Aug 1965
       DenmarkBent Larsen
Bled, June–July 1965      Soviet UnionMikhail Tal  
     HungaryLajos Portisch
     Soviet UnionMikhail Tal

 

Debistro

The present system is alright. The Candidates is already a knockout format. Just make the WCC matches longer. 16-20 games would be ideal.

fabelhaft

"The Candidates is already a knockout format"

It's a double round robin.

Debistro
fabelhaft wrote:

"The Candidates is already a knockout format"

 

It's a double round robin.

But still a knock out format.

Two games to decide whether one player is "better" is a far cry from the past Candidates. It's still knock out to me.

fabelhaft
Debistro wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

"The Candidates is already a knockout format"

 

It's a double round robin.

But still a knock out format.

Two games to decide whether one player is "better" is a far cry from the past Candidates. It's still knock out to me.

In a knockout players face each other two and two and half of them are eliminated in every round, as in Wimbledon. In a round robin all players face each other and no one is knocked out, as in the Candidates Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Carlsen and Anand won.

BarbieMassacre
Debistro wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

"The Candidates is already a knockout format"

 

It's a double round robin.

But still a knock out format.

Two games to decide whether one player is "better" is a far cry from the past Candidates. It's still knock out to me.

Laughed so hard.

Debistro
fabelhaft wrote:
Debistro wrote:
fabelhaft wrote:

"The Candidates is already a knockout format"

 

It's a double round robin.

But still a knock out format.

Two games to decide whether one player is "better" is a far cry from the past Candidates. It's still knock out to me.

In a knockout players face each other two and two and half of them are eliminated in every round, as in Wimbledon. In a round robin all players face each other and no one is knocked out, as in the Candidates Smyslov, Petrosian, Tal, Carlsen and Anand won.

Then how did the Candidates work when say, Fischer played Larsen/ Taimanov/Petrosian in a series of games? That is what I meant, and we don't have that today.

Go on fabelhalft, explain. I've long noticed your style is to create troll threads where u don't offer any of YOUR own opinions, but lie in wait to "ambush" people that comment.... Wink.

So what's YOUR say?

fabelhaft

"Then how did the Candidates work when say, Fischer played Larsen/ Taimanov/Petrosian in a series of games? That is what I meant, and we don't have that today.Go on fabelhalft, explain. I've long noticed your style is to create troll threads where u don't offer any of YOUR own opinions" etc etc

You stated that the Candidates is a knockout and now you say "we don't have that today" when talking about the knockout system of Fischer's days. Above I wrote that "to me the World Championship knockout format is the worst of Kirsan's ideas", that sounds a bit like an opinion to me.