cheating on chess.com

i am concerned about a specific player on chess.com which i highly suspect of cheating. i have twice suggested to the chess.com staff that this person is most likely cheating but i believe that chess.com has cleared them of any wrong doing (or simply never checked - since they have given me no information about their check i don't think it's crazy to assume that there was no check taking place - i guess i'm just pessimistic).

first of all, this person does not win every game. this person is "smart" enough to accept a decent amount of draws (many while leading in material, and many with a large amount of game still to be played (ex. after about 10 total moves and only one pawn captured by each side)). that being said, this person's record is quite amazing (last time i counted it was 79 straight undefeated games out of just over 100 total played). this person had only lost 32 games total and all were on time (except one i believe near the beginning of him/her joining the site).

yes, this person may be some grandmaster in the making who just never loses a game that he/she finishes. but the very strange draws are making me really question this person's abilities. why offer/accept a draw while leading in material? why offer/accept a draw when he/she is even in material and plenty of game left to play? other than trying to keep one's cheating rating from ballooning to crazy amounts, i don't see a reason.

i'm asking for other people's opinions for two reasons: 1) chess.com has failed to adequately address the issues imho, and 2) perhaps i'm missing something that could adequately address the issue. so please someone help me out. i don't want to think that there are a lot of cheaters on this site and there's just nothing that happens to them. it will greatly influence my wanting to play on this site.

bro, you're going to find people using engines on any internet site. go play at a club or coffee house. i'm not sure why you're so concerned with other people's records or rating anyway...

please privately message me about this. :)

perhaps you are right. there may be no way of avoiding people cheating on a chess internet site. if that is true, then i will stop playing on this site and instead try to play more live games. however, chess.com argues that they strongly oppose cheaters on this site and will try to stop any cheating from being done. therefore, i am currently believing in and accepting their comments that i have heard so far.

as for your second point, i do not care about a person's record or rating. i care about playing in an environment which does not allow cheating. that is the issue that i am discussing here. any mention of ratings or records was merely used as an explanation as to why i think that this specific person is cheating.

 sorry, what do you mean by cheating ? I do not suppose that the use of chess programs is forbidden!!!

We play correspondence chess, and everyone knows that almost everybody in that 'sport', 'asks' programs, at least from time to time.

So what else could cheating mean ?

Well, if you've ever  been to yahoo, you know how rampant cheating can be and doughty is right that we shouldn't really be worried about ratings online. Then Yahoo has or had serious problems with bots and horrible online chatters as well. As far as ratings, I know I quit worrying about them a couple of years ago. Still, if I'm playing someone's program, I'd like to know and trigs is right there. What is a cheater trying to do? It's lame to sit there and claim you won when it's Chessmaster 9000 that beat you.  I say, just quit worrying about the ratings and play your games; if someone is making the perfect move every time and their rating's low then just abort or resign and move on to a real game. Chess.com seems pretty ok as does kurnik (playok.com) out of Poland....haven't tried chessmaniac but it looks intriguing as well. Play and have fun and when it's not, move on.

it most certainly IS forbidden.

Are you kidding me?  Mandelshtam if you are using a program which you just admitted you are,  you should be kicked off the site.  Consulting programs is illegal in correspondence chess you are only allowed to use game databases and books.  That's it.

You are 2300... if everyone was able to consult programs for their moves wouldn't you think everyone would have a high rating?  Wow...

I've only run into 1 person who was cheating for certain. Anylize the game and back it up with computer analysis. Then publish it for everyone to see. I put mine on my page but I should have put it in the forums. A little embarrassment goes a long way! I run computers on all my major games once I'm done the game. I use fritz, rybka etc. Any cheater will be caught and exposed. After I posted the game on my page no one else has tried to use a computer. I assume they just won't play me.

I don't use computers, book or databases during the games. I rely on memory and calculation.  Even the game against cheater-1 was pure calculation and knowledge. A quick sign of cheating is that the opponent cannot explain the positions in words and must rely on lines of play. They simply can't grasp the balance of forces well enough to make statements about the game that make sense. If you think someone cheated ask them to explain the position in words where you think they cheated. 

mandelshtam, the use of engines is not forbidden by the ICCF. It is forbidden for correspondence chess in the US.

The use of engines is also forbidden on chess.com (see the rules). This is stated clearly in their rules. Also, they never use the term "correspondence chess", so making the comparison to the ICCF isn't completely accurate.

I think, or at least I hope, that there are very few cheats on this site, but there are bound to be some, though I'm afraid I couldn't tell if I mat one or not.

  But assuming there is a small percentage, then it stands to reason that in a big tournament, for example the chess.com tourneys, cheaters will be present, so the tournament winners are going to be either literal cheaters, who use chess computers to make their move, or secondary cheaters who massively abuse vacation time,(ok it's within the rules, but not the spirit) or are deliberately in the wrong ratings group.

 Or they could be grand masters, of course, in which case they're still in the wrong group, except for the 2001+ caregory.

 Interesting, isn't it? Big tourney winners are quite likely cheats, or in the wrong section.

Still, it's great fun playing against good players, even if they maybe computers and to be honest, I don't think any of my opponents are, though as I said, I doubt I could tell.

It's vacation time that's the real killer, for me, but that's another story.

Luv you all, even the computers!!!!!!

Trig,

I always think a good way to tell is the Quick rating.  First do they have one, second is their quick rating way off from their other ratings.

Maybe that will help too.

I don't know if I agree with that, if you mean a Live Chess rating.  My Live Chess skill with time under 30 mins or so is MUCH worse than my play in correspondence chess.

WHy is their record any of your concern?  Just dont play him/her.  I'm too concerned about my own crappy chess play to care!

I think there is massive use of chess engines at all stages of the game on this site.

But I will follow the rule from now on. 

 I have to say that it is a very bad rule: you cannot prove BEYOND ANY DOUBT that someone used a program during the game.

That's why many players will never further follow the rule, and they will profit. 

I don't think that's quite true.  Do you not find the scenario outlined in the opening post suspect?  Or if someone cannot explain their moves without resorting to lines?

Finding something suspect is quite different from proof beyond any doubt.

I don't think there is much cheating going on. Particularly not at my level. If there were, I wouldn't stand a chance! Even if my opponents didn't get their every move from a computer, but only checked in once in a while, I think I'd get tactically wailed on much more frequently.

My experience with internet chess over the last 12 years is that there is much more discussion about and accusations of cheating than actual cheating.

i kinda think this is funny.

cheated: Hey! Why'd you move there!? Huh!? Can you explain!?

cheater: *disables chat*