Chess will never be solved, here's why

Sort:
Avatar of mpaetz

A couple of points:

You are assuming that chess MUST be a draw with best play, a contention that has by no means been proved.

If your definition of "good move" changes with the situation on the board, then your original explanation of the term was indeed imprecise.

Avatar of Optimissed
mpaetz wrote:

A couple of points:

You are assuming that chess MUST be a draw with best play, a contention that has by no means been proved.

If your definition of "good move" changes with the situation on the board, then your original explanation of the term was indeed imprecise.

:
:
All that is necessary is to define a good move as anything that doesn't alter the game-state, since it's impossible to produce a move that alters the game-state positively. So it's precise.
:
If chess were ever shown to be a forced win, I think many people would stop playing because it would entirely alter the game and the way it's played. It isn't going to happen, though, so it's an assumption that doesn't require any more proof than already exists. I actually believe that it is completely impossible to arrive at a deductive proof regarding the outcome of chess with best play.

Avatar of mpaetz

First you defined your "better" term "good move" as something that does not lead to loss by force. Then you defined it as something that preserves the win. Now you define it as anything that doesn't alter the game-state. Perhaps your first definition WAS imprecise, which was all I was trying to point out.

People will pay a pretty penny to play a simul vs a world-champion despite the fact that they are almost certain to lose. They continue to play chess even though engines have proved that humans cannot play perfectly. They will continue to play even if it turns out machines can force a win from move one.

I apologize for any mistaken impression you may have drawn from my previous post--I should have said "a contention that has not been proved to everyone's satisfaction".

Avatar of MARattigan
Optimissed wrote:
mpaetz wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
mpaetz wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

:
Incidentally, it supports what I was saying about "perfect moves" being bad and confusing nomenclature. "Good moves" makes more sense and is maybe more accurate. Any move is a good move when it does its job, which is not to lose by force.

So if I miss an easy mate-in-three combination but don't make a mistake serious enough to cause me to lose by force I have "made a good move"?

In the context of playing moves that don't lose or perhaps you'd rather that you'd made a perfect move? People just can't grasp logic here.

Yes, in the example I cited I would have.preferred to have found the "perfect move" that would have actually WON the game rather than played something that just didn't lead to a forced loss.

:
It's a given, though, that you can never make a move that wins the game if the opponent hasn't already made a move that loses it. If that does happen, the situation changes and a good move is anything which preserves the win.

That's why we need agreement on the meaning of the words in use.

Would you normally call Rb8 a good move in this positon? (We can agree to call it "perfect", but I wouldn't call it "good".)

White to play, ply count 0
 

Or try this White win (as White) against both SF and the top moves from Syzygy.

Black to play, ply count 0
 

We know the top moves from Syzygy are perfect (what you've just referred to as "good") and those from SF are quite often not. Which of the two would you really say is making good moves?

Avatar of Festerthetester

In my opinion psychology has about as much place in a chess game as on a race track or a poker game. No one cares why a NASCAR driver made a risk maneuver to pass or poker player made an iffy bet to bluff his hand. All that matters is the success or failure of the move. If the driver wins the position or the race, or the gambler wins the hand, the move was a good one. If not the moves were the wrong ones.

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

you look delishose

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

i smell your hair

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

you monkey

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

jokes on you i already reported you for terroristic threats.

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

this is my form

Avatar of ThatJoshGuy7

This is for a chess achievement

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

did you know that on 911 people died

its a fact

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8

nu uh

Avatar of trimalo

Chess was solved a long time ago when computers were able to beat any human player. it took longer for a computer to beat the best Go players, but it worked ultimately. 

Avatar of DiogenesDue
trimalo wrote:

Chess was solved a long time ago when computers were able to beat any human player. it took longer for a computer to beat the best Go players, but it worked ultimately. 

That's not the definition of solving a game.

Avatar of Optimissed

^ not quite, but never mind

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Angelthechessgodnum2 wrote:
tfidkbnv wrote:

this is my form

It’s not.

Hopefully the mods will do an IP check here and stop the troll from talking to himself.

Avatar of Kyobir
tfidkbnv wrote:

did you know that on 911 people died

its a fact

like 3000 right

Avatar of TOASTY_GHOSTY8
Kyobir wrote:
tfidkbnv wrote:

did you know that on 911 people died

its a fact

like 3000 right

yes

Avatar of Festerthetester

another thread I won't miss.