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Chess will never be solved, here's why

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Avatar of Elroch
Elroch
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16701
DiogenesDue wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

guys?

Is this where you jump in to say "stop it now!!!"?

You need to be careful about that...you're going to become a meme like "Leave Brittany alone!!!".

You know that is part of France, right? grin.png

Avatar of Optimissed
Optimissed
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16702
Elroch wrote:

"Best play" is a perfectly well-defined concept in game theoretic terms. I means it only contains moves with the optimum value, where the values are "win/draw/loss".

"Best practical play" is context-dependent, and a rather fuzzier concept, relying as it does on an implicit notion that the opponent makes errors stochastically.

There's no such thing as best play, except in situations where only one line achieves the desired, predictable result of a draw or a win. It simply doesn't exist other than that and if any experts have defined it wrongly, then they aren't very expert experts. In fact, they are quite mistaken experts.

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16703
Elroch wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

guys?

Is this where you jump in to say "stop it now!!!"?

You need to be careful about that...you're going to become a meme like "Leave Brittany alone!!!".

You know that is part of France, right?

France what now?

Avatar of Optimissed
Optimissed
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16704

That's because optimum values are fictional, simply because they differ from player to player, according to their tastes.

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16705

what does optimum mean? sorry if it's obvious...

Avatar of playerafar
playerafar
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16706

I saw two recent syllogisms here. Both of them wrong.
Both by the same person.
The earlier one was like 'everyone thinks they're doing right, in their own eyes'
and the latest installment is about people 'not getting proven wrong.'.
Syllogisms. There's an infinite set of those too.
Here's a list of 'assertions'
https://www.buzzfeed.com/cassandrats/common-sayings-that-arent-true

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16707

*ahem Dio*

Avatar of DiogenesDue
DiogenesDue
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16708
playerafar wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
Optimissed wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
playerafar wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
jereminatan wrote:
You can never predict what kind of move will tick, inspire, amuse, or bore your opponent. Since you don't know how your opponents deep game psychology might work. You don't know what his game strategies are, what kind of blundering tactics he might fall pray to. The "best move" to them is not the same "best move" to the next opponent.

Except that there are a single or small set of moves that are objectively "best" in each position, so the subjective is not really meaningful.

Except that the subjective is nearly always meaningful.

Context.

Agreed.

In some contexts, acknowledgement of the subjective perception of objectivity is little more than a formality.

By chance, do you believe that when you put your hands over your face, you are invisible to others? That is a good example of what happens when you have not learned to understand objective reality. You could add it to your paranormal panoply of powers, I guess.

The subjective exists. Subjectivity.
And is distinct from 'subjective perception' which would be a subset of subjectivity.
Subjectivity takes many forms.
-----------------------------------
Anytime anybody makes an assertion or claim or remark or whatever - in these forums - that person may be subject to disagreement.
When that happens that person has various options.
Quite a list. Its probably an infinite set.
But some of the ones we often see are:
Passivity to the disagreement (often best). Argument or debate. Conflict. Panic. Personalization.
Ignoring. Apathy.
Sometimes one person refutes the other.
And there's group reactions too.
Assertion. Somebody disagrees. One thing we don't often see is
'You disagree? So what? I don't care.'
Would that be healthier than the asserter trying to insist he's more intelligent - as an argument?
It would be a lot smarter.
If the asserter is insecure then he/she will not be able to concede when proven wrong.
-----------------
Somebody 'believes' chess has been solved?
Well - that somebody can believe that 2+2=5. Also.
Or that he/she has unique and superior ability.
Such delusions are usually transient though. And not well organized.

The next subject is tigers. If they run around in a circle real fast do they turn into butter? And what is butter, really? Or tigers, for that matter? Does the material transformation of tiger to butter make use of quantum fluctuations, or is it just magic?

Avatar of shadowtanuki
shadowtanuki
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16709
playerafar wrote:

I saw two recent syllogisms here. Both of them wrong.
Both by the same person.
The earlier one was like 'everyone thinks they're doing right, in their own eyes'
and the latest installment is about people 'not getting proven wrong.'.
Syllogisms. There's an infinite set of those too.
Here's a list of 'assertions'
https://www.buzzfeed.com/cassandrats/common-sayings-that-arent-true

Nice reputable source, and A fine scholarly presentation. A rickroll would have been more apt, in this context.

Avatar of playerafar
playerafar
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16710

Hi Dio !
I think this link is good enough to post at least twice.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/cassandrats/common-sayings-that-arent-true

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16711
shadowtanuki wrote:
playerafar wrote:

I saw two recent syllogisms here. Both of them wrong.
Both by the same person.
The earlier one was like 'everyone thinks they're doing right, in their own eyes'
and the latest installment is about people 'not getting proven wrong.'.
Syllogisms. There's an infinite set of those too.
Here's a list of 'assertions'
https://www.buzzfeed.com/cassandrats/common-sayings-that-arent-true

Nice reputable source, and A fine scholarly presentation. A rickroll would have been more apt, in this context.

LOL

Avatar of playerafar
playerafar
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16712

And of course somebody will complain about the source.
Completely missing the point about syllogisms.
AGC and shadow?
Where's Octopus? Those three could keep each other busy.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
DiogenesDue
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16713
Elroch wrote:
DiogenesDue wrote:
ChessAGC_YT wrote:

guys?

Is this where you jump in to say "stop it now!!!"?

You need to be careful about that...you're going to become a meme like "Leave Brittany alone!!!".

You know that is part of France, right?

I make no apologies for not knowing more about Britney Spears. In fact, I consider it a triumph happy.png.

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16714

lol

same here

Avatar of shadowtanuki
shadowtanuki
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16715
playerafar wrote:

And of course somebody will complain about the source.
Completely missing the point about syllogisms.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Avatar of AmericanChadAGC
AmericanChadAGC
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16716

what word

Avatar of playerafar
playerafar
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16717

all lowercase one word lol there.
Trying hard to 'laugh'.

Avatar of shadowtanuki
shadowtanuki
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16718

Trolling?

I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. - United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart

Avatar of playerafar
playerafar
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16719
shadowtanuki wrote:
playerafar wrote:

And of course somebody will complain about the source.
Completely missing the point about syllogisms.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

'don't think' are the operative words there.
Look it up if you want. If its not perfectly the correct word then you can obsess over that.
I give you permission.
Whatever you do - don't inform yourself about syllogisms and sayings that aren't true and cliches and dogmatism. Make sure you don't learn about it.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
DiogenesDue
Jan 13, 2025
0
#16720

Not enough people here have watched The Princess Bride, which is perhaps a sad commentary on the modern world.

(Yes, both interpretations do work.)