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# Computer vs Computer

• #1

Recently I have been wondering whether there is an advantage to playing one color rather than the other. An obvious (but probably wrong) assumption is that white has an advantage due to moving first. I decided to test this by pitting two expert level computers against each other in the play "Vs. Computer" mode here on chess.com. I found that every time so far, black won. Does this mean that black has an advantage over white? Or does it just mean that the computer plays better as black?

Here is one of the games I did:

• #2

So far 5, and black won every one

• #3

why 56 qh5??? that: a computer probably wouldn't do!

• #4
[COMMENT DELETED]
• #5
KartikeyG wrote:

why 56 qh5??? that: a computer probably wouldn't do!

delays checkmate by one move

• #6

White does have a small first-move advantage.

You can do simulations to prove the first-move advantage, but five games isn't near enough to draw any conclusions. With this computer, who knows? Maybe it does play better with Black, but that would just prove that the Chess.com computer ain't right in the head.

• #7

5 games? Re post when you've done a 1000 and when there is still and edge to black.

• #8

Having played on ICCF now for over 5 years (centaur cc), I've found the general rule of thumb about white's advantage in such deeply calculated games is as follows:

1. Chess is inherently a draw. There are in fact countless ways to reach that draw.

2. In order to win the game, the other side MUST make mistakes (not to be confused with outright blunders).

3. It takes usually 2 mistakes by black for white to press a win.

4. It takes usually 3 mistakes by white for black to press a win.

Again the above findings are when it concerns ultra-deeply analyzed centaur games, where "mistakes" can often take 20 or more moves to be proven as such. That being said, it gave me a clear idea of white's advantage being just more leeway to make mistakes than black.

I've never lost a game as white on ICCF, while as black, I'm averaging 1 loss per year (to give an idea about that advantage difference).

• #9

How did you make two bots play against each other?

• #10
BlunderFish wrote:

How did you make two bots play against each other?

My guess is the old trick of two accounts (hopefully not owned by the same person). Account 1 plays the comp as White, Account 2 plays the comp as Black. The two human players just relay the comps' moves, and the result is that the comps end up playing a game between the two comps.

• #11
EscherehcsE wrote:
BlunderFish wrote:

How did you make two bots play against each other?

My guess is the old trick of two accounts (hopefully not owned by the same person). Account 1 plays the comp as White, Account 2 plays the comp as Black. The two human players just relay the comps' moves, and the result is that the comps end up playing a game between the two comps.

I was hoping there was a more simple way to do it than manually moving the pieces >-<

• #12

Arena, and likely some other software, allows engine vs engine matches/tourneys.

• #13
BlunderFish wrote:
EscherehcsE wrote:
BlunderFish wrote:

How did you make two bots play against each other?

My guess is the old trick of two accounts (hopefully not owned by the same person). Account 1 plays the comp as White, Account 2 plays the comp as Black. The two human players just relay the comps' moves, and the result is that the comps end up playing a game between the two comps.

I was hoping there was a more simple way to do it than manually moving the pieces >-<

Sure, if you have engines that conform to UCI or Winboard standards, there are GUIs that can run engine vs. engine tournaments. I'm assuming that the Chess.com computer doesn't conform to either standard.

• #14

Isn't it also a weird opening?

• #15
BlunderFish wrote:

How did you make two bots play against each other?

On the mobile chess.com app, you can make 2 computers play against each other. Setting them on level 9 gives the computers (according to the app) a rating of exactly 2000

• #16

According to Enderman1323, the computers are exactly the rating of 2000 at level 9, so make a new thread in which you use level tens please.

• #17
jakealaka wrote:

According to Enderman1323, the computers are exactly the rating of 2000 at level 9, so make a new thread in which you use level tens please.

1. I am OP (XD)

2. I was using the level 10 computers, not the level 9

• #18

I recently played comp-level-10 Vs comp-level-10 (one comp on PC, one on mobile). White won in 71

• #19

One place to get data on this is the recent chess engine competition (see here).

Unfortunately I haven't seen a summary for the full competition, but I have stats for the Super-Final (20 games between the best engines).

For the Super-Final tournament:
Draws: 75%
Wins as White: 10%
Wins as Black: 15%
Average game length: 199.5 ply (100 moves)

This is not a lot of games, but no White advantage was detected from these games.

• #20
vickalan wrote:
...

This is not a lot of games, but no White advantage was detected from these games.

Correct. Not enough games, by a long shot.

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