Could a 2000 rated player beat Magnus Carlsen?

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waffllemaster
Petrosianic wrote:

so a 2200 player statistically would be expected to score only 1 pt in 100 games versus Carlsen.  i would be upset to get this score even against a strong chess program.

Yeah, people overestimating experts/masters again.  Do these guys crush new players?  Absolutely.  But a GM is a completely different class of player.  And even among GMs Carlsen is in a class of his own.

waffllemaster
Petrosianic wrote:

so a 2200 player statistically would be expected to score only 1 pt in 100 games versus Carlsen.  i would be upset to get this score even against a strong chess program.

You would be upset to score 2 draws out of 100 games against Houdini (for example) ?

I'm reminded of a story of some newly minted GM who had a chance to play some training games against the then world champion.  He said he won the first game and was feeling good, and then he proceeded to lose the next 25 games in a row.  He said after becoming a GM he didn't think it was possible for himself to lose 25 games in a row against anyone, and he realized he had a lot to learn.

Maybe you should try that 100 game match Laughing

Irontiger
zazen5 wrote:

In chess 960 absolutely.  (...stuff about the loss of opening theory...)

I expect the 2000 vs Carlsen record to be worse in 960.

There is no way a 2000 player would get into a losing position by move 10 in regular chess, when it could be in 960, precisely because opening theory is not just ambushes at move 35 but also some feeling about important squares and structures.

waffllemaster
zazen5 wrote:

In chess 960 absolutely.  In chess you are studying fixed patterns that occur over and over again.  I see this all the time when I am studying the Accelerated Dragon book I have in the basement.  Most study material acts as if ideas are things, objects, or some proven theory that must always work.  Perhaps that is the case in conventional chess.  However in 960 good luck.  How is he going to study all the openings?  Cannot be done because there isnt any material out there and there are so many possibilities.  So what you have left with is analysis, intuition and how smart the person really is, not just how much they can study.  I study chess primarily because it keeps me grounded, not necessarily because it makes me smarter.  Sure Carlsen may beat many people.  But consider this:  There is a reason why GM's dont play lower rated players and it isnt because they arent challenged.  It is because playing lower rated players you pick up bad habits primarily.  So by not playing GM's protect their mind from the lower rated players.  This concept is something to examine carefully.

While a beginner like you may marvle at the mysterious theory hidden in the forever unread book locked in his basement, professional players, and even above them super GMs, and even above them, the WCC actually understand how to play chess.  For them, books with theory are the first little baby steps and you sum up a player like Carlsen with that idea.  lol.


There's a reason Carlsen is rated above players twice his age.  And it's not because he's memorized more theory.

phinneas

It's possible.

Chessfan475

It's possible:

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=692709077

clunney

No, never. It is impossible.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

If Anand couldn't pull off a win in their world championship match... you know what, forget it, just forget it. 

amcclain
CP6033 wrote:

lets put it this way, could a 1000 player beat and 1850?


I agree with the others. I believe a 1000 would have a much better shot against an 1850 than a 2000 against Carlsen.

ACookieJar

no... carlsen beat a GM with only 1 minute and the GM had 5 minutes

CP6033
amcclain wrote:
CP6033 wrote:

lets put it this way, could a 1000 player beat and 1850?


I agree with the others. I believe a 1000 would have a much better shot against an 1850 than a 2000 against Carlsen.

perhaps....but do you know how 1000's play? no offence to anyone, but they SUCK. so do i compared to an IM, but they get checkmated by 1400's on move 15. maybe a better chance, but not much

SocialPanda
CP6033 wrote:
amcclain wrote:
CP6033 wrote:

lets put it this way, could a 1000 player beat and 1850?


I agree with the others. I believe a 1000 would have a much better shot against an 1850 than a 2000 against Carlsen.

perhaps....but do you know how 1000's play? no offence to anyone, but they SUCK. so do i compared to an IM, but they get checkmated by 1400's on move 15. maybe a better chance, but not much

I know what are you trying to say.

But that just shows how far are we from the good players, we are playing a different game.

For example, there was an article where Anand played 2 games against a reporter rated 2100, Anand said that he only needed to though for some seconds for one of the moves in one game, while all the rest of their moves were made "by hand".

iMacChess

On a off day...

(Never say never)

iMacChess
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chessredpanda
GeorgeBlackChess123 wrote:

If he was blinded, and didnt hear the notations. I think he would lose!

well duh but ordinary chess

chessredpanda
Chessfan475 wrote:

ok.well we are talking magnus.and the other guy is 2200.online doesn't matter and that was 3 min.not standard

Irontiger

Well, of course one should not say "never" when it is actually one in a billion of billions of games.

Let's just say they better have to start the match soon and never sleep if we want a chance to see a victory before either dies.

chessredpanda

lol,but that is literally never

DjonniDerevnja

About 1000 versus 1850. My nephew was 1850  Fide and I ca 1000  chess.com-blitz in Christmas. He did beat me ca 7 of  8  times, but it was blitz, and in blitz mistakes do come more frequently. When I was 1000, i guess i was 900 in Sicilian/black and 1100 with Italian/white. But my 1000 era is many weeks back in time, now I am at 1200, and the next time??? He  better be careful.  ;)

My nephew is capable of draw with a 2350, but 2850 is far more difficult. 

chessredpanda

well 2800 dont make blunders