Could Magnus Carlsen give Capablanca knight odds and still win?

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Avatar of IsraeliGal

knight odds is a bit extreme. 

Capablanca wasn't an idiot. Plus if you consider his strengths, he was an endgame machine, similar to magnus. If he was able to maintain that knight advantage into the endgame, he'd just win. 

Also you have to consider that if magnus was to give knight odds to the average GM today he would probably lose often. 

 

 

Avatar of JamesColeman

Capa was a chess genius, a contemporary of Alekhine, who was one of Kasparov’s heroes, so it’s safe to say the guy knew a thing or two about chess. 

So no, absolutely not. And it’s not just that you’re a knight down, you have a bad position strategically as well, which Capa would convert in his sleep. 

Avatar of llama47
Soniasthetics wrote:

If he was able to maintain that knight advantage into the endgame, he'd just win. 

To be fair, you'd also beat Carlsen in almost any practical endgame if you were a knight up.

Avatar of IsraeliGal
llama47 wrote:
Soniasthetics wrote:

If he was able to maintain that knight advantage into the endgame, he'd just win. 

To be fair, you'd also beat Carlsen in almost any practical endgame if you were a knight up.

Nope, i'd probably lose most of them. 

 

Avatar of knighttour2

Capa would win at long controls, but for argument's sake I'll remind people that Magnus won a blitz match against IM Lawrence Trent giving rook odds and beat GM Gawain Jones in a classical game after blundering a knight on move 16 for no comp.

Avatar of brianchesscake
Pulpofeira wrote:
jessicatheprodigee escribió:

Fischer claimed he could beat any woman knight odds. He was good, but I don't think anyone is giving a knight away to Polgar or Ju Wenjun and expecting to win.

Polgar would give him a run for his money without any odds.

I would not be so sure. Polgar has a pretty dismal record against Kasparov, Anand, and Kramnik. Assuming that Fischer at his peak was at least at their strength, it's doubtful that Polgar would have done so hot against him. Sure, she was the strongest female player in history, but was never close to approaching world champion level.

Avatar of mpaetz
knighttour2 wrote:

Capa would win at long controls, but for argument's sake I'll remind people that Magnus won a blitz match against IM Lawrence Trent giving rook odds and beat GM Gawain Jones in a classical game after blundering a knight on move 16 for no comp.

     Don't count Capablanca out in speed chess. He was known for the rapidity of his play. Five-minute games were unknown in his day, and modern GMs have forcing lines they like to use memorized deep into the middlegame, so Capablanca would probably do poorly until he got used to the pace and saw his opponents lines--then he would be able to hold his own.

Avatar of KnightChecked
brianchesscake wrote:

I would not be so sure. Polgar has a pretty dismal record against Kasparov, Anand, and Kramnik. Assuming that Fischer at his peak was at least at their strength, it's doubtful that Polgar would have done so hot against him. Sure, she was the strongest female player in history, but was never close to approaching world champion level.

Polgar didn't have a good overall score against World Champions, true. But she has beaten them. When Judit was in form, she had the ability to mow down anyone.

She played Karpov, Kramnik, Anand, Kasparov, and Carlsen—and they all resigned to her at one point or another.

So Fischer likely would've been the same. He likely would've won the majority of their games, but she would've crushed him at least once.

Avatar of ponz111

he could not give me knight odds  No person on earth could give me knight odds.

Avatar of Neon-Knights

Even I could easily crush Capablanca, because he's dead.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Yeah, perhaps Knight odds are too much to overcome. Kaufman considered pawn odds to be worth about 200 elo. Carlsen would be considered a clear favorite in a pawn-odds match against Capa.

Avatar of SmyslovFan
ponz111 wrote:

he could not give me knight odds  No person on earth could give me knight odds.

Perhaps not in correspondence, but in blitz he easily could.

Avatar of llama47
jessicatheprodigee wrote:

The question is, can Magnus beat Stockfish or Leelachess Zero without their knight?

In a classical length game, I imagine he'd be favored.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

I suppose the engines wouldn't have the adequate mindset to handle such situation.

Avatar of llama47

Oh, yeah, if you mess with the contempt value, and if there are other setting like that, then sure, you'd probably be able to get an engine that is favored vs Carlsen at classical time controls down a lot of material, including a knight.

It would play objectively bad, but sharp lines, where you have to find only moves. Something like that. Humans make too man mistakes, and engines are too good at punishing them.

Avatar of ponz111

yes in blitz he would beat me in blitz as I have never played blitz in my life. I was talking about over-the-board chess at any normal speed.--Nobody on this planet could give me knight odds.

Avatar of llama47

When was the last time you played an over the board game at "normal speed?"

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Here's what happened when Nakamura was given Knight odds against an engine. 

https://www.chess.com/news/view/hikaru-nakamura-vs-dragon-chess-engine?page=2

Avatar of ponz111

llama it has been a very long time but that does not at all change my answer.

My last over-the-board chess was all 15 games played in 3 tournaments [one was the US Open] in 1973 where my performance rating was approximately 2450---                        Am a better player now as I learned a lot in 48 years. tongue.png

Avatar of FrancisCominelli

People studied odds chess a lot more back then. Capa likely knew the strategy of a knight odds game way better then Magnus does. I doubt Magnus has ever seriously thought about it.