Could you beat Morphy if he gave you knight odds?

Simple question.

I'm 99% sure I could.

Not even with queen odds.

Anyone who loses with queen odds shouldn't play chess.

Anyone who doesn't lose with queen odds against Morphy is a strong chess player. I'm only a chess player, who knows if I could become a strong one some day...

i could beat an engine with queen odds

although engines suck at creating chances in losing positions

but queen odds is just too much of an advantage

morphy back in the day is maybe only like current 2500 in terms of his knowledge with openings and stuff, i can probably beat him

I think you delude yourself. You would mostly lose and occasionally draw. BTW Morphy would slaughter you at knight odds more surely than a modern GM. In Morphy's day chess odds games were popular. He would have considerable experience and practice at beating up weakies at knight odds or rook odds. A modern GM, of course, would also mostly win, but might allow you more draws.

SilentKnighte5 wrote:

I'm 99% sure I could.

Morphy was not GM level IMO. And if he was, it sure is hard to know because his opponents hung their pieces an awful lot. I think I would be able to put up a good fight against him with knight odds. Maybe I'd even win.

the remaining 1% has the correct answer

A lot of 1800+ players could beat Morphy if Morphy gave knight odds.

Oh sure, Morhpy would win some games.  He'd thrown everything at you and attack and sacrifice even further and you'd probably make a mistake now and then

But any 1800+ player would also know to trade down at evert opportunity, and use that extra piece decisively.  They'd also win a lot of games.  It's not that hard.  I know, since I've beaten Stockfish with knight odds before, and Morphy, as good as he was, is no Stockfish.

I agree.

Paul Morphy possessed supernatural talent. We never saw him at his peak.

Anybody below Master level who thinks he would beat Paul Morphy at Knight odds are seriously deluded.

Yeah......

Yeah....

You guys have obviously never tried it. 

Here's a blitz game I played just now, against Stockfish.  Stockfish gave me knight odds.  Granted, IT'S A BLITZ game... Stockfish thought for just a few seconds on each move, but so did I.  Although it's not a serious game, it's enought show how much knight odds are.

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 Bd6 6.Bd3 Qe7+ 7.Qe2 Qxe2+ 8.Kxe2 c6 9.Bxf6 gxf6 10.h3 Be6 11.Re1 O-O-O 12.Kf1 h5 13.Nc3 Rhg8 14.Nh4 Rde8 15.Bf5 Kd7 16.Bxe6+ fxe6 17.Re2 e5 18.Rae1 e4 19.Nf5 Bb4 20.a3 Bxc3 21.bxc3 Ke6 22.Nh4 f5 23.f3 Kf6 24.Kf2 b5 25.fxe4 fxe4 26.Kg1 Ref8 27.Rf2+ Ke6 28.Rxf8 Rxf8 29.Rf1 Rg8 30.Nf5 Rg5 31.Ne3 Rg3 32.Kf2 Rg6 33.Ke2 Rg8 34.Rf2 Rh8 35.g4 hxg4 36.hxg4 Rg8 37.Rf5 Rg7 38.Kf2 Rh7 39.Kg3 Ke7 40.Kf4 Rh3 41.Re5+ Kf7 42.Nf5 Rf3+ 43.Kg5 Kf8 44.Kf6 Rf4 45.g5 e3 46.g6 Rxf5+ 47.Kxf5 1-0

This isn't the first time I've played strong engines, with them giving me knight odds.  It's not hard to defeat them.  Morphy may have been a GM, but he was no Stockfish. 

Morphy may also have had "supernatural talent" but a piece is still a piece.

Maybe... if the chess set was large enough, and I grabbed his knights while he wasnt looking, and then I put them in a sock.  Then, I said "hey Morphy, look behind you it's Jesus!" and then when he turned, I started beating him over the head with the sock full of knights.  But, I'd need to practice on some watermellons, with a sock full of knights.  Because, I wouldn't wanna kill him, just 'mess him up' good enough that he'd have to resign.  1-0 BKB vs Morphy

Anybody who thinks your average "A" player couldn't beat Morphy when given knight odds doesn't know what he is talking about.

I challenge a few more players to post games they've played, against Houdini or Stockfish or Komodo, when given knight odds, and show us the result.  It's not hard to beath these engines at all.  And yes, these engines are as strong or stronger than Morphy.   (Tip:  Trade down when you can and don't complicate the position.)

One reason people stay low rated is because of an unnatural fear of stronger players.  Trust me, they aren't as good as you make them out to be.  Agree with Ed that any 1800 should be able to give Morphy a run with knight odds.

One fact to think a little bit before giving quick responses. His last years Philidor played nothing but games with odds against each and every opponent successfully.

Yes, but most of the time it was simply pawn odds.  Here's a page the does have a few games where Philidor gave knight odds... but a quick glance at the results of several of those games indicate Philidor LOST or drew many of those games, helping to prove my point that knight odds are too much to give to strong players.

Game XIII, page 17.  Leycester wins.
Game XIV,  page 18.  Leycester draws.
Game XV, Page 21, Leycester wins.
Game XVII, Page 23, Conway wins, while giving Philidor the White pieces AND an extra move
Game XVIII, Page 24, Conway wins while giving Philidor the White pieces AND an extra move

Etc.

If you mean that "I" have to play blindfold, Morphy could give me Queen odds and I'd lose most or all of those ten games!  I'd lose track of the position 15 or so moves into each game... because I'm not a blindfold player at all.

But if you mean Morphy has to play blindfolded, then again, knight odds is all I would need and I'd bet on myself over a ten game match. 

Morphy wouldn't be handicapped at all by playing blindfolded... but he'd still be handicapped by having to give me knight odds.  I'd win more games than I lost and if comfortably ahead late in the match I'd steer some of the games into draws, to hold my lead.

(My peak OTB USCF rating is 1900+... but I've dropped down to about 1850 or so.)