Could you beat Morphy if he gave you knight odds?

Wow !!  With such grandmasterly results I would think you would have won your state's championship a few times ... why didnt you ?  Tennant and Karklins did ... 

Was engine use allowed in the 7th USCCC you won ? 

Depending on when ponz played Bisguier, he may not have even been the highest rated player on the list.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1028569

1973 US Open , check the 70s .... 

Nice Goring Gambit... played the year I was born.

There were 777 players in that U S Open  tournament.  Bisquier was the 3rd highest rated player. Walter Browne and William Lombardy were rated higher.

Incidently in the very first USCF tournament I ever played in--the U S Open in Omaha Nebraska in 1959  GM Bisguier won that tournament and Paul Benko came in 2nd.

 He was rated 2464 which was a good rating in those days.  Both Karklins and Bisquier played in the USA Closed Championship.

I don't have any supplements dating back that far, but I have a friend who may.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1037444

Ponz , how on earth did you miss 20 Re7 ? !     I agree your goring gambit was a nice game . 

I had a plus score vs Tennant.  Counting city to city games. I had played Sandrin once before and drew.

Much of my USCF playing was when I lived in Decatur Illinois way too far from Chicago.  I won many tournaments and did not  realize how strong I was until I played in that US Open in 1973.

As, I mentioned, I had a disability which precludes me from ever playing USCF over-the-board again.

I do not know if chess engines were allowed when I won the USA Championship? [I think they were probably allowed but at the time the chess engines were not very strong.]  I did not use a chess engine and  I do not think the other players did either] 

I played in the 7th USA Championship.  I played three Ponziani games------

which the chess engines have refuted the line. [chess engines and partly my help]  these were 1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6 3. c3  d5  4. Bb5? and I won 2 1/2 out of 3.  Then I won all other games including 7 with Black.

However by the time the 8th USA Correspondence Finals came about the winners had a lot of draws and it is likely that some were using chess engines [which had become considerably stronger by that time] 

One of the reasons I did so well is I had invented new theory in the Center Counter [1. e4  d5  2. exd5  Qxd5]  and won 4 out of 4 with Black with this line.

My first USCF game was in the US Open in 1959. That  tournament had more than half the players rated expert or above.

Then I won a minor tournament in Peoria Illinois.  Then I played on and off until my last year of 1973. 

Reb  20. Re7 not possible in that game. You must be looking as something wrong.

By the way the game vs Bisguier lasted 50 moves and had a nice ending.

I have beaten players rated +2400 in USCF tournaments. I believe I could beat Morphy in a six game match if he gave me knight odds. I do think he'd probably win one or two even with those odds though. 

As a thought experiment: How much material do you need before you can beat Stockfish or Houdini? 

For arguments sake, let's assume Morphy is 2400 USCF. I'm nearly 2000 USCF, so that's about 400 points difference. Could I beat a 1600 down a knight? Well, when I was 1900 I played a 1600 player and dropped a knight on move 10. Eventually I did win, but it was very hard and I really only played on because I didn't want my game to be the first one ending. (BTW, when he resigned he was still winning; he just thought he was losing)

I'd say on a good day I beat Morphy rather easily with knight odds, but if it's a bad day and I make a few careless moves I could easily lose.

In a game I wasn't even trying, when I was thinking for just a few seconds on each move, I beat Stockfish with knight odds.  I posted that game earlier in this thread.  I've done so in the past, several times.  And I'm only an A Player. (Having the engine give you odds is only way I CAN beat that engine.)

Try it.  It's not hard.  Simply trade down at every opportunity and otherwise simplify when you can.

Yes.  Ditto.

I had a many game winning streak and probably dropped my queen about 4 or 5 times during that streak.

It is correct to make many [reasonable] trades as one way to win vs knight odds if you have the extra knight.

SmyslovFan wrote:

I have beaten players rated +2400 in USCF tournaments. I believe I could beat Morphy in a six game match if he gave me knight odds. I do think he'd probably win one or two even with those odds though. 

As a thought experiment: How much material do you need before you can beat Stockfish or Houdini? 

I just need to be a piece up. Stockfish would play horrible crap. And I can claim victory over a Super-GM!

post #130  ponz , this game : http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1037444

Reb  ok I thot you meant the Bisguier game.

The Ruy Lopez Defense I used is no good. The game was losing before that move.  This was the game that made me give up that variation against the Ruy.

I did use it once to win a tournament however.  vs a different master.

The difference is the master who beat me was staying in the hotel at the US Open had seen my score sheets of the first 3 games and figured out how to refute the opening. More Power to Him!