D4 is better than E4 and C4 and its also whatever works best for you

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crazedrat1000

I've been preferring d4 lately, but honestly.... it's a meaningless debate. If you want to meaningfully compare repertoires you'll need to get more specific than just a move-1 assessment.

Anyway, I couldn't address all the babble in this thread, you talk for pages and pages and it takes too long to read all this. But regarding your statements in the OP:

- while E4 is generally more tactical for both sides, in E4 white has the initiative and can usually steer the game into lines white prefers, i.e. white has an easier time entering the traps he wants to play than black does. So your argument that "black has 1000 traps" is just completely undermined here.

- in E4 white doesn't have to play bad sicilian lines like the Smith Morra or Bowdler. There are much better options. You use those as examples but they're very bad examples.

- your argument against the English on account of the anglo-Scandi assumes white has no idea what he's doing. Many of your arguments assume this. That's a bad assumption to make.

KentexplorerchessW

if where talking in a microscopic world d4 is the best move 1 percent higher win rate little bit more advantage and a few more things d4 is better then e4 with

KentexplorerchessW

I often win when playing an anglo scandinavian

AGC-Gambit_YT
DepressoEspresso01 wrote:

Pretty sure I met you while you had international

nope

AGC-Gambit_YT

you guys are horribly bad at observing.

DepressoEspresso01

I don’t pay attention to people’s flags

AGC-Gambit_YT

and...

DepressoEspresso01

It’s a small thing I don’t care about

AGC-Gambit_YT

so...

joshuathe-bigestback

hey my friends told me to join the chat

DepressoEspresso01

That’s why you’re the biggest back

AGC-Gambit_YT

lol

KentexplorerchessW
crazedrat1000 wrote:

I've been preferring d4 lately, but honestly.... it's a meaningless debate. If you want to meaningfully compare repertoires you'll need to get more specific than just a move-1 assessment.

Anyway, I couldn't address all the babble in this thread, you talk for pages and pages and it takes too long to read all this. But regarding your statements in the OP:

- while E4 is generally more tactical for both sides, in E4 white has the initiative and can usually steer the game into lines white prefers, i.e. white has an easier time entering the traps he wants to play than black does. So your argument that "black has 1000 traps" is just completely undermined here.

- in E4 white doesn't have to play bad sicilian lines like the Smith Morra or Bowdler. There are much better options. You use those as examples but they're very bad examples.

- your argument against the English on account of the anglo-Scandi assumes white has no idea what he's doing. Many of your arguments assume this. That's a bad assumption to make.

yes but often white does play bad lines look at my game history with the Sicilian there's so many people doing the bowdler and stuff the best line in the Sicilian are najdorf and closed Sicilian which bassicklly never lets the game go in those sicilians its blacks choice to allow attacking ideas

imdabeast

I've always said D4 is the best move. That's always my first move. It's too easy for black to get a draw against E4 if black plays E6 the French Defense.

KentexplorerchessW

I mean Ive never seen the French defense because I don't play E4 and play Sicilian against E4 so Ive never seen a french defense but I think you might have a point

wilecoyote1

At engine level e4 is refuted primarily bc of e5 (Berlin) and some Sicilians as well. I'm aware of fewer draws with d4 openings and transpositions to the general d4, c4, and Nf3 setups. It honestly makes sense, bc despite the attacks being more slowly developed, the emphasis on center control and pawn structure make it prime.

Alphazero was an animal with the Catalan.

crazedrat1000
KentexplorerchessW wrote:
crazedrat1000 wrote:

I've been preferring d4 lately, but honestly.... it's a meaningless debate. If you want to meaningfully compare repertoires you'll need to get more specific than just a move-1 assessment.

Anyway, I couldn't address all the babble in this thread, you talk for pages and pages and it takes too long to read all this. But regarding your statements in the OP:

- while E4 is generally more tactical for both sides, in E4 white has the initiative and can usually steer the game into lines white prefers, i.e. white has an easier time entering the traps he wants to play than black does. So your argument that "black has 1000 traps" is just completely undermined here.

- in E4 white doesn't have to play bad sicilian lines like the Smith Morra or Bowdler. There are much better options. You use those as examples but they're very bad examples.

- your argument against the English on account of the anglo-Scandi assumes white has no idea what he's doing. Many of your arguments assume this. That's a bad assumption to make.

yes but often white does play bad lines look at my game history with the Sicilian there's so many people doing the bowdler and stuff the best line in the Sicilian are najdorf and closed Sicilian which bassicklly never lets the game go in those sicilians its blacks choice to allow attacking ideas

Your post does not consist of complete sentences but it wouldn't make a difference if it did - there are numerous anti-sicilians far better than the Bowdler / Smith Morra. Black has a choice of main line sicilian, but white has most of the choice all the way up until the main line. But black having the choice of main line is what makes the sicilian formidable and very different from almost every other line in 1. e4... it takes black alot of work to get to the point of reliably dealing with the anti-sicilians, though. And if white knows his theory... the open sicilians remain very good for white. The more common ones (i.e. Najdorf) are easier for white to deal with since white gets alot more practice against those - main advantage black has is the breadth of sicilian theory and the burden this puts onto white. Hence, at levels below high masters (and certainly at your level), black should leverage that advantage and not play something super-common like the Najdorf.

KentexplorerchessW

Every antisicilian is bad. The Alapin Sicilian is bad for White. Look at every antisicilian, then look at the advantage; it always drops. Yes, you are correct: the Najdorf is a great opening for White; however, most often the Najdorf ends in a draw most of the time. When people lose against the antisicilians, it is because they haven't experienced enough of that line, but most antisicilians are bad; even if White has a slight advantage with these, it's still less, which is bad. Also in the Sicilian, there are many great variations with the Najdorf because of the fact that the Najdorf is a deep opening for both sides to have strong ideas that are barely stoppable. But often people who know enough about the book in the Sicilian have very high levels in elo, often making stuff like the Najdorf end in a draw. Again, there have also been crazy brilliant games for both white and black with many brilliant moves, and often each has had great defeats and great wins. Though yes, white or black don't have to choose a Najdorf Sicilian; they can choose other lines, but the only other great lines for white are the nf3 Sicilian traditional line, the open Sicilian stonewall, and also, at some levels, the McDonnell attack. Often it is also a great idea for Black to keep the Sicilian closed because White's goal vs the Sicilian can sometimes be to open it up and start crazy attacks, often having Black lose, but I have seen most brilliant games with Black keeping a closed Sicilian. Often open Sicilian is better for White and closed better for Black because Black actually gets great positions where they can hop in white position and start some kind of attack. In conclusion, it's a great opening for Black if they know every antisicilian counter often leads to Black's win, and with many other lines leading to draws, usually Black only loses if they blunder or open the position.

Fiery_The_Dragon
KentexplorerchessW wrote:
Your_Local_Ravenclaw wrote:

e4 comes with it's own set of traps too!

And the actually reasonable ones:

(I'm only showing what happens if you fall for it for this one)

Now white has almost full control of the center.

Same thing for this one.

And don't forget about c4.

All because c4 happened.

you realize that these 5 random terrible traps give white a disadvantage and only 100-600 would fall for possibly almost every other player would never fall for them also every one of the traps you showed arent even book there just blunders the trap with the most advantage for white is the kings gambit still a disadvantage

wow kid you dont know what ur talking about

look at the vienna gambit

fried liver attack

d4 makes chess boring and nobody even falls for the queens gambit anymore

Fiery_The_Dragon

you dont even understand gambits with e4.

have you ever heard of "material isnt everything?"